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<title>Re: [Equest-users] Modeling Windows: Center of Glass vs Assembly</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There are several ways to enter window properties in eQUEST. If
you are in wizard mode, you can choose from the library (but this will not work
for LEED compliance models in eQUEST 3.64). The other two choices in Wizard
mode are “NFRC U-factor/SHGC” and “U-value/Shading
Coefficient”. NFRC U-factor/SHGC automatically sets your window frame
width to 0 because the value you enter (NFRC rated U-factor provided by the
manufacturer or installer) should be for the entire assembly. This is the way
to do it for LEED compliance models.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>For the “U-value/Shading Coefficient” method, you
should enter the center-of-glass U-value including air films. Often, the glass
manufacturer lists two U-values, summer and winter. You should enter the
average value. You must also enter a frame width and choose a frame type. Both “NFRC
U-factor/SHGC” and “U-value/Frame Conductance” map to the simplified
input in detail mode.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Do not confuse GLASS-CONDUCTANCE with U-value or U-factor.
GLASS-CONDUCTANCE is the thermal conductance of the glass without the external
air films. eQUEST calculates this automatically if you have entered your window
properties in Wizard mode. If you want to enter window properties in detail
mode, you will need to look up the appropriate GLASS-CONDUCTANCE value from the
table in the DOE2 help file (attached).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Mechanical Engineer | <a href="mailto:kvantassel@sustaineng.com">kvantassel@sustaineng.com</a></span><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Sustainable Engineering Group</span><span style='color:#000066'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>STEVE
SAMENSKI<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 16, 2010 6:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carol Gardner; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Modeling Windows: Center of Glass vs
Assembly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks,
Carol. I have two problems with Window 5:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>It
can’t seem to handle complicated multi-pane geometries (though
perhaps there’s a way to finesse that), and </span><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>It
makes as much sense to me as your average Lady Gaga music video</span><o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
After I work my way through the Fenestration chapter I plan to wade into Window
5.<br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1E487C'>Steve Samenski, PE, LEED AP, BEMP<br>
Vice President - Sustainable Technologies<br>
The Spinnaker Group, Inc.<br>
<a href="http://equest-diary.livejournal.com/">http://equest-diary.livejournal.com/</a><br>
www.thespinnakergroupinc.com <<a href="http://www.thespinnakergroupinc.com">http://www.thespinnakergroupinc.com</a>>
<</span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#0000FE'><a href="http://www.thespinnakergroupinc.com">http://www.thespinnakergroupinc.com</a></span></u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1E487C'>> <br>
</span><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#75913B'>Become the solution... Join the USGBC!<br>
</span></i></b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
On 9/16/10 7:20 PM, "Carol Gardner" <<a href="cmg750@gmail.com">cmg750@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Happy
reading. I'm not sure exactly how eQUEST handles all of this but I would
assume, oooh, dangerous, that if you put in your glass type carefully and take
care to specify the width and type of frame you have, all of which are in the
Wizards, you should be good. You could test the output by comparing it to a
Win5 calculation of your COG U value and frame, or just import the Win5 data
into the model.<br>
<br>
Carol<br>
<br>
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:38 PM, STEVE SAMENSKI <<a
href="steve@thespinnakergroupinc.com">steve@thespinnakergroupinc.com</a>>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Does
anyone know definitively if eQuest calculates window assembly U-values based on
user input?<br>
<br>
As many have pointed out, the USGBC is now being careful about the distinction
between center-of-glass U values and assembly U values. I’ve been
entering center-of-glass U-values and precise window geometry, counting on
eQuest to do the heavy lifting for me. Report LV-D says “U-VALUE
INCLUDES OUTSIDE AIR FILM; WINDOW INCLUDES FRAME, IF DEFINED”.
However, combing through several posts to this forum, some say eQuest
doesn’t really calculate an assembly’s U-value, because it ignores
the edge-of-glass effects due to the frame. (Not to be confused with the
thermal conductance of the frame itself, which I’m sure eQuest uses in
its calcs.) I’m hoping that one of the programmers can answer this,
or maybe someone who got the story from a programmer.<br>
<br>
I plan to read the ASHRAE Fundamentals Chapter on Fenestration this weekend.
Wish me luck.<br>
</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Steve Samenski, PE, LEED AP, BEMP<br>
Vice President - Sustainable Technologies<br>
The Spinnaker Group, Inc.<br>
<a href="http://equest-diary.livejournal.com/">http://equest-diary.livejournal.com/</a><br>
www.thespinnakergroupinc.com <<a href="http://www.thespinnakergroupinc.com">http://www.thespinnakergroupinc.com</a>>
<</span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:blue'><a href="http://www.thespinnakergroupinc.com">http://www.thespinnakergroupinc.com</a></span></u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>> <br>
</span><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#76923C'>Become the solution... Join the USGBC!<br>
</span></i></b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
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</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Steve Samenski, PE, LEED AP, BEMP<br>
Vice President - Sustainable Technologies<br>
The Spinnaker Group, Inc.<br>
786-385-3510<br>
www.thespinnakergroupinc.com <</span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'><a
href="http://www.thespinnakergroupinc.com">http://www.thespinnakergroupinc.com</a></span></u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>> <br>
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