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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have a question along the line of infiltration through windows.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I know that there are methods of calculating infiltration and as an architect we usually go with the crack method calculating the linear length of all seams. I have read that air infiltration is not listed on NFRC labels but needs to be obtained by manufacturers catalog.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My question is, how important is the infiltration when your building is positively pressurized? Most of our buildings are designed that way, do you still need to calculate that in your air exchange, since infiltration through windows is typically an air exchange. My engineer told me not to worry about it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We also use metal panels on our PEMB buildings which our manufacturer says has a lower infiltration rate than other metal panels. It’s how they set up their gasket. So in the opinion of our engineer you would have to calculate all the infiltration at all the seams. It’s like going down the rabbit hole.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Does your architect call for taped seams on tyvek? Does the architect call for butyl at penetrations? Are you accounting for infiltration at doors? ETC… and believe me the list goes on because I almost went down it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>PETER HILLERMANN<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Gothic Demi","serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><a href="mailto:peterh@westallarchitects.com">peterh@westallarchitects.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:75%'><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:75%;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Md","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>westall</span></b><span lang=DE style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:75%;color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.0pt;line-height:75%'><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:75%;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Md","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>architects</span></b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:75%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>3404 pierce drive<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>chamblee, georgia 30341<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>o 770.458.4113<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>f 770.458.5352<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>c 678.898.2936<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Gothic Demi","serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>westallarchitects.com</span><span style='color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=160 height=87 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.jpg@01CB55A1.F5BDE6B0" alt=e-signature><img border=0 width=92 height=90 id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image003.gif@01CB559F.C3C99480" alt=USGBC-Logo><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Chris Jones<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 15, 2010 7:07 PM<br><b>To:</b> Alex Krickx<br><b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Window replacement and infiltration rate changing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>ASHRAE 90.1-1989 prescribed the amount of infiltration to use in the design and budget cases as 0.038 cfm/sq. ft. of gross exterior wall area. I believe that subsequent versions of 90.1 dropped any reference to modelling infiltration rates. The infiltration is "on" when the fans are off. <br><br>The MNECB/CBIP in Canada uses 0.05 cfm/sq. ft of gross exterior wall area - with a schedule on all of the time.<br><br>Who knows where those numbers came from and it doesn't really answer the question of how much infiltration will be saved with new windows but it gives a starting point.<br><br><br><br>At 06:16 PM 15/09/2010, Alex Krickx wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Content-Language: en-US<br>Content-Type: multipart/related;<br> boundary="_005_B8B836A09111F041A16C8A3690FB3563AFF4FE9861EXVMBX0156exc_";<br> type="multipart/alternative"<br><br>Yeah, it does sound high, doesn’t it? But when compared to the maximum level for new windows of 0.3, then it doesn’t sound as high… new windows must be 3x less leaky than old ones – that sounds like the right reduction to me. <br> <br>The only link I could find on performance of old windows was this one: <a href="http://www.bfrl.nist.gov/IAQanalysis/CONTAM/table00_arld.htm">http://www.bfrl.nist.gov/IAQanalysis/CONTAM/table00_arld.htm</a> <br> <br>It gives leakage areas in “area per linear meter of seam”. A colleague converted this to leakage area in CFM/SF at 75 pa. His number was 1.4 CFM/SF based on the table (not sure which value he used). <br> <br>As a thought: perhaps 1 CFM/SF seems too high because we imagine it as the infiltration for a whole wall, when in actuality it only applies to the window? Assuming the wall has little infiltration, a 25% WWR would bring 1 CFM/SF (window) to around 0.25 CFM/SF (whole façade) – probably a little higher if accounting for the wall leakage, but not significantly so. Does that number still raise alarm bells? Not to me, but I don’t have as good a feel for this as Carol does. <br> <br>I’ve definitely seen some leaky windows – unfortunately I’ve never tested how leaky they are so I’m stuck with looking for industry papers and best practice. I definitely would like to learn more about this though. Typical infiltration values of old windows seems to be a big question mark with people I’ve asked….<br> <br>Regards,<br>Alex<br> <br> <br><b>From:</b> Carol Gardner [<a href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com"> mailto:cmg750@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 15, 2010 2:57 PM<br><b>To:</b> Alex Krickx<br><b>Cc:</b> YingQi Chen; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Window replacement and infiltration rate changing<br> <br>Wow! It seems like 1 cfm/sf for infiltration would be a lot. The people's hair next to the windows would be blowing all around! That's the average number I use for HVAC ventilation.<br><br>Carol<br>On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Alex Krickx <<a href="mailto:akrickx@seriousmaterials.com"> akrickx@seriousmaterials.com</a>> wrote:<br>Hi Yingqi,<br> <br>I’m pretty sure eQUEST does not automatically adjust infiltration rates. <br> <br>If you search through the archives and look up “infiltration windows” you can find some relevant posts. I’ve attached one email that was sent around earlier this year describing one way to change the infiltration between current and proposed cases.<br> <br>I don’t think you can apply a percentage reduction without some more information. I believe that the requirement to meet the DOE’s VPP for windows is a maximum infiltration of 0.3 CFM/SF – this leads me to believe that some new windows have more infiltration than this. My company manufacturers windows with infiltrations as low as 0.01 CFM/SF. I’m having a hard time finding a source, but I’m pretty sure I’ve heard of modeling existing windows with infiltration as high as 1 CFM/SF. A building with a large WWR and very leaky windows could substantially reduce whole-building infiltration values.<br> <br>Good luck!<br>Alex Krickx<br> <br> <br>Alex Krickx<br>Building Energy Specialist<br><img border=0 width=121 height=42 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:7.1.0.9.2.20100915185640.036fc3b8@enersave.ca.2" alt="email_sig"><br>1250 Elko Dr, Sunnyvale, CA 94089<br>(t) 408.541.8124<br> <br><b><i>Warning:</i></b><i> The information contained in this e-mail may be privileged attorney-client communications or attorney work product and/or proprietary and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient then you have received it in error and any review, distribution or copying of this message is prohibited and you are to notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the original message immediately.<br></i> <br> <br> <br><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"> mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol Gardner<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 15, 2010 2:19 PM<br><b>To:</b> YingQi Chen<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Window replacement and infiltration rate changing<br> <br>If eQUEST changed the infiltration between the two cases you would be able to see the change in your .inp deck. I'm not sure what the impact of doing the change using the EEM Wizard vs. simply copying and renaming your input deck and making the change in it's own .inp deck would be. You could experiment and see if there's a difference. If it doesn't change your infiltration I would lower the perimeter infiltration rate conservatively by a fixed percent. You might Google infiltration rates on line and find some information related to how much to expect for a single pane window to a double pane window. Also, be sure to account for your frames, too. Are they thermally broken? Does the frame material change, etc.<br><br>Carol<br>On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 2:05 PM, YingQi Chen <<a href="mailto:yingqi.chen@pertan.com">yingqi.chen@pertan.com</a> > wrote:<br>Dear eQuester:<br> <br>I want to run a simulation by EEM wizard. I want to replace exiting single pane, clear windows with double pane clear windows for a school building. <br> <br>I changed the class type form single pane clear to double pane clear windows. The energy saving doesn’t look good. I have two following questions need someone's guidance. <br> <br><b>Question 1:<br></b> <br>My question is that this EEM will reduce perimeter infiltration rate of the building. I am not quit sure if I need to reduce the perimeter infiltration rate in the simulation. If, it does, how many percentage of infiltration rate do I need to reduce? <br> <br><b>Question 2:<br></b> <br>Does eQuest programmer has already considered this issue and changed the perimeter infiltration rate automatically with changing window glass type and insulation of the windows?<br> <br>Yingqi Chen<br> <br>The PERTAN Group<br>44 Main Street, Suite <br>Champaign, IL 61820<br> <br>217-356-1348 ext 205<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><br><br><br><br>-- <br>Carol Gardner PE<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Nick Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a> ><br>To: Alex Krickx <<a href="mailto:akrickx@seriousmaterials.com"> akrickx@seriousmaterials.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 16:47:48 -0800<br>Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Modeling Infiltration and Windows<br>I’ve done exactly that in the past for the exactly the same purpose!<br> <br>The only difference is I believe I always punch in the differences in the metric of ACH. ASHRAE fundamentals provides some guidance regarding air change rates to expect for various classes of construction as a function of outdoor design temperature, and that was the best I could base my existing construction off of from what info I had available.<br> <br>Come up with a “leakiness” for both you construction, old and new windows, and do the weighted average jig =).<br> <br>Kudos on your fancy facade spelling also ;)! <br> <br>~Nick<br><img border=0 width=119 height=37 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:7.1.0.9.2.20100915185640.036fc3b8@enersave.ca.3" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"><br><b> <br>NICK CATON, E.I.T.<br></b>PROJECT ENGINEER<br>25501 west valley parkway<br>olathe ks 66061<br>direct 913 344.0036<br>fax 913 345.0617<br><i>Check out our new web-site @ </i><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com">www.smithboucher.com</a><u> <br></u> <br><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"> mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alex Krickx<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 08, 2010 6:05 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Modeling Infiltration and Windows<br> <br>Hello all,<br> <br>I am interested in modeling the energy savings that occurs when windows are replaced with lower-infiltration alternatives. In the wizard mode, the only place that I see infiltration is under the “Building Envelope Constructions” Screen. <br> <br>I’m hoping someone can confirm my methodology:<br> <br>Can I input a weighted average of window and wall air infiltration here? If I’m looking at a building with 20% Window to Wall Ratio, and the windows have 0.1 CFM/ft² while the walls have 0.04 CFM/ft²can I apply an area weighted average into this box? I would take (20%*0.1+80%*0.04) as the <i>façade </i>infiltration value.<br> <br>That way I could use the same formula to determine the area weighted infiltration of the façade if better windows were installed.<br> <br>How do other people model this?<br> <br>Thanks in advance!<br> <br>Alex Krickx<br> <br> <br>Alex Krickx<br>Building Energy Specialist<br><img border=0 width=121 height=42 id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:7.1.0.9.2.20100915185640.036fc3b8@enersave.ca.2" alt="email_sig"><br>1250 Elko Dr, Sunnyvale, CA 94089<br>(t) 408.541.8124<br> <br><b><i>Warning:</i></b><i> The information contained in this e-mail may be privileged attorney-client communications or attorney work product and/or proprietary and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient then you have received it in error and any review, distribution or copying of this message is prohibited and you are to notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete the original message immediately.<br></i> <br> <br> <br><br><br><br>-- <br>Carol Gardner PE<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Chris Jones<br>14 Oneida Avenue<br>Toronto, ON M5J 2E3.<br>Tel. 416-203-7465<br>Fax. 416-946-1005<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>