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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I might have misunderstood terminology on infrared heater because what people seem to be saying is a radiant heater. We modeled these in a project in Connecticut in 2 ways. If there was only a radiant heater in the zone we used a unit heater, if we were combining it with outside make up air we used a unit ventilator. If you have a package system or some other system within the zone we offset the radiant heat with baseboards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sorry if I made things sound too complicated yesterday. I thought you were using some sophisticated radiant heater, but I guess radiant heater and infrared heater are essentially the same thing unless I am confused.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>PETER HILLERMANN<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Gothic Demi","serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><a href="mailto:peterh@westallarchitects.com">peterh@westallarchitects.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:75%'><b><span lang=DE style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:75%;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Md","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>westall</span></b><span lang=DE style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:75%;color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.0pt;line-height:75%'><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:75%;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Md","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>architects</span></b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;line-height:75%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>3404 pierce drive<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>chamblee, georgia 30341<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>o 770.458.4113<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>f 770.458.5352<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>c 678.898.2936<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Std Bk","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"ITC Avant Garde Gothic Demi","serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'>westallarchitects.com</span><span style='color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=160 height=87 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image004.jpg@01CB50D4.9D37A6B0" alt=e-signature><img border=0 width=92 height=90 id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image003.gif@01CB50D4.45078280" alt=USGBC-Logo><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sami, Vikram<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 09, 2010 4:18 PM<br><b>To:</b> jeff@sharpenotes.com; Charles Land<br><b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Infrared Heaters<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My 2 cents.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Caveat: I have not actually modeled these (don’t really use them much in Atlanta).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I am assuming you have a separate HVAC unit in addition to these to supply ventilation air (or is it just the infrared heat?). The one’s that I have seen do not really have variable temperature controls they are either on or off. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There are two components to this: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sensible heat gain to the space<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Radiant heat to occupants (radiant heat to surfaces will eventually end up as heat gain to the space – correct?)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Of the two – the first one is a comfort issue and the second is an energy issue. In eQUEST the only reason we care about the comfort issue is that it allows you to turn down the supply air. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My suggestion is that you can model it in two ways:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Model it as an internal energy source (you can specify it as gas, electric or hot water). You can specify the input power as well as the Sensible Ratio. The drawback is that you cant control this by thermostat. But if the equipment is an on-off thing this doesn’t matter. The heat gain will be added to the space.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This might be the more Accurate way to model this (although its more long winded). The first step is the same – you model it as an internal source. This is only to run the meter if it’s a gas or hot water run radiator. If its electric you could probably skip this step. The next step is to add a lighting load equivalent to this. eQUEST allows you to separate lighting loads into radiative fractions and sensible fractions. The drawback of course is that you have an additional step to separate out the lighting loads from this (by running the model once without the additional loads in lighting).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Not sure if this will work, but hey – its free advice </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>Vikram Sami</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>Sustainable Design Analyst<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>1382 Peachtree St. NE, Atlanta, GA 30309<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>t: 404-443-7462 f: </span><span lang=ES style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>404.892.5823 </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'> e: <a href="mailto:vikram.sami@perkinswill.com">vikram.sami@perkinswill.com</a> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.perkinswill.com/"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray;text-decoration:none'>www.perkinswill.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:3.0pt;text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>Perkins+Will.</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'> </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#ADD425'>Ideas + buildings that honor the broader goals of society</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>jeff@sharpenotes.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> Charles Land<br><b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Infrared Heaters<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>Our approach has been similar, but with lower equivalent furnace efficiencies because of the typical flue losses and the bigger convective losses (heat off the top of the units). Manufacturer claims of 85% efficiency seem typical for tube style units. Also note that most of the gas models do incorporate an exhaust fan for draw-thru.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>From the DOE2 point of view, the energy savings are realized by the significantly lower space temperatures these systems allow. In a cold environment repair garage application our most recent model predicts a 30-40% energy savings over conventional ceiling-hung unit heaters; matching the historical data we know of. j# <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>Sharpe Energy Solutions, Inc<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>Ashland, OR 97520<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' id=replyBlockquote><div id=wmQuoteWrapper><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Infrared Heaters<br>From: Charles Land <<a href="mailto:cland@geo-marine.com">cland@geo-marine.com</a>><br>Date: Thu, September 09, 2010 11:36 am<br>To: Peter Hillermann <<a href="mailto:peterh@westallarchitects.com">peterh@westallarchitects.com</a>>, "'BLafley'"<br><<a href="mailto:BLafley@cetonline.org">BLafley@cetonline.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>"<br><<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br><br>Im not sure what your talking about as far as renewable energy, but ive always modeled infrared by dropping the zone temp setpoint by ten degrees, setting the fan energy to zero and making the furnace 100% efficient. Some times I lower the heating design temperature as well.<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] On Behalf Of Peter Hillermann<br>Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:42 PM<br>To: 'BLafley'; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Infrared Heaters<br><br>Bill,<br><br>Do you have a chart that shows how much renewable energy the unit consumes<br>and then uses to create heat? What you need to do is create the item in 2<br>parts. Its renewable component, which might be a solar collector and then<br>you set up a radiant heater in the room either as baseboard or as your<br>system in that zone.The thing that I have noticed while modeling is there<br>are 2 things you are looking at.. products in your building and how they<br>consume energy, by amount and efficiency. The second is what are you doing<br>to replace the energy... renewable or are you pulling it from the grid. The<br>model does not care where it comes from as long as when you use the<br>renewable it is as efficient as you say it is. I typically use PVWatt<br>calculator and do manual calculations because someone taught me that. You<br>can also set up a collector in the utility&economics tab under photovoltaic<br>modules. This is where you will need the solar information on your<br>collector.<br><br>The weather file needs to be correct because this is where it is pulling<br>your solar radiation data from watts/meter squared or watts/feet squared.<br><br>Hope this helps. (Easier to do by hand)<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>PETER HILLERMANN<br><br><a href="mailto:peterh@westallarchitects.com">peterh@westallarchitects.com</a><br><br>westall<br>architects<br>3404 pierce drive<br>chamblee, georgia 30341<br><br>o 770.458.4113<br>f 770.458.5352<br>c 678.898.2936<br><br><a href="http://westallarchitects.com">westallarchitects.com</a><br><br><br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>[<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] On Behalf Of BLafley<br>Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:22 AM<br>To: <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>Subject: [Equest-users] Infrared Heaters<br><br>Hello,<br><br>Does anyone have any experience modeling ceiling hung infrared heaters in<br>eQuest?<br><br>Thanks,<br>--<br>Bill Lafley<br>Energy Analyst<br>Center for Ecological Technology (CET)<br>320 Riverside Drive - 1A Florence, MA 01062 <a href="mailto:blafley@cetonline.org">blafley@cetonline.org</a><br><<a href="mailto:blafley@cetonline.org">mailto:blafley@cetonline.org</a>> / 413-586-7350 ext. 222<br>413-695-2730 (cell) Visit <a href="http://www.cetonline.org">www.cetonline.org</a> <<a href="http://www.cetonline.org">http://www.cetonline.org</a>><br>Support our work <<a href="https://www.merchantamerica.com/cet/echopay/index.php%3e">https://www.merchantamerica.com/cet/echopay/index.php></a>;<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to<br><a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the addressee. 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