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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You are correct, I was describing the MIN-FLOW/AREA (VAV <b>zone</b>
minimum airflow). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I allow eQUEST to auto-size the design airflow rates based on
G3.1.2.8. ( a supply-air-to-room-air temperature difference of 20 F). If the
heating room temperature is 72, the supply air temperature is set to 92 F. If
the cooling room temperature is 75 F, the supply air temperature is set to 55
F. I allow eQUEST to size the reheat capacity. In many cases, eQUEST sizes the
airflow for small rooms such as individual restrooms and storage rooms at the
minimum zone airflow / area which results in high unmet heating hours. This is
when I increase the MIN-FLOW/AREA for that specific room. In this case, the
FLOW/AREA and the MIN-FLOW/AREA are related to each other.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As described in the archives, it is important to determine why
each room has unmet hours. Sometimes the problem is the same for every room
(like a scheduling problem) and other times it is specific to an individual room
(not enough airflow for small rooms with little or no internal loads).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Hwakong Cheng
[mailto:hwakong@hotmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Otto Schwieterman; cmg750@gmail.com; kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Confirmation for finding the Baseline Energy
Model Supply Airflow<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Wait a minute! I think we are
mixing very different keywords and functions here, both in the modeling
world and in reality. This is fundamental to understanding VAV systems.<br>
<br>
Kathryn and Carol were discussing FLOW/AREA or the minimum design airflow.
This is the zone design airflow (or VAV max airflow) that eQUEST starts with as
a minimum when autosizing. If you are letting eQUEST autosize the zone design
airflow, then the program will increase the airflow from that starting point to
meet the load. Most zone loads will require more airflow than this so this
value is not really that important, until you start setting it too
high. Typical office interior zones are usually less than 1 cfm/sf so
FLOW/AREA=1 will probably oversize interior zones. To the original question, in
my experience, insufficient zone airflow is seldom the cause for unmet hours.
Neither are system airflow or primary coil capacity, especially if you are
letting eQUEST autosize these. Appendix G (G3.1.2.1) gives bad advice on this
situation. You have to dig a little deeper in the reports (like SS-R) to
understand the cause of the unmet hour. If it's unmet heating hours, I would
try looking at the REHEAT-DELTA-T or MAX-SUPPLY-T or HEAT-SET-T depending
on your system type. If you are VAV, you need HEAT-SET-T defined in order
to have a heating coil in your AHU. Also, I think a lot of people confuse the
COOL-TEMP-SCH and DESIGN-COOL-T (and same for heating side). The schedule
describes the zone temperature setpoint at each hour, not DESIGN-COOL-T. There
are tons of discussions in the archives about how to deal with unmet hours.
Although it can be very effective at reducing unmet hours, I think increasing
the zone THROTTLING-RANGE should be among the very last options to fix unmet
hours, when nothing else fixes the problem. <br>
<br>
Otto, you are describing MIN-FLOW/AREA or the VAV zone
minimum airflow. This is the minimum airflow that is required
when the zone is either in deadband, or deadband and heating, depending on when
you have a reverse-acting or proportional thermostat. This keyword
should have no impact on whether the zone meets cooling loads. If you have a
proportional t-stat, then a low MIN-FLOW/AREA could impact whether you
have enough reheat capacity. If you have a reverse-acting thermostat,
this shouldn't really have any impact on unmet hours, unless you have a
zone with very low internal loads and insufficient reheat capacity. In
that case, you should probably be fixing the reheat capacity, not the zone
minimum. <br>
<br>
Although the keywords and names are very similar and easy to confuse, the eQUEST
dictionary help files describe all of these variables very clearly.<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 09:47:17 -0400<br>
From: oschwieterman@fhai.com<br>
To: cmg750@gmail.com; kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com<br>
CC: equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Confirmation for finding the Baseline Energy Model
Supply Airflow<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Appendix ASHRAE 90.1 2007 Appendix G3.1.3.13 VAV Minimum Flow
Setpoints (System 5 and 7) states:</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>“Minimum volume setpoints for VAV reheat boxes shall be
0.4 cfm/sf of floor area served or the minimum ventilation rate, whichever is
larger.”</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>For systems 5 & 7, I will set the minimum flow rate to 0.4
CFM/SF. If I have high unmet hours due to the small amount of CFM, I will
increase the value on a room by room basis. The baseline’s flow rates are
typically 30% less than my proposed model. The fans typically run more often in
the baseline model. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Does anyone else have a different way to model the flow rates
for the LEED Baseline model?</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Carol Gardner
[mailto:cmg750@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 07, 2010 9:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kathryn Kerns<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Confirmation for finding the Baseline Energy
Model Supply Airfllow<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>You must use the 1.15 and 1.25 multipliers
to meet LEED requirements. I would look at the throttling range that eQ is
defaulting to. if it's .5 F, which is I think what it is for PSZ, I would raise
that to1 or 2 F, which is reasonable. Then I would look at the space loads,
equipment especially and make sure all that looks good, then I'd look at the
schedules, make sure they are good, and then I'd look at the cfm/sf. It's not
unreasonable to match it to your proposed building and I don't know of any
issue LEED has with doing that.<br>
<br>
Carol<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>On
Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Kathryn Kerns <<a
href="mailto:kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com">kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Yes, Carol I know the default airflow value is very low. Usually
the eQuest airflow auto sizing routine will select larger values than the
default. The problem is: what if the eQuest baseline energy model selects
airflows larger than the default cfm/sqft airflow values but the baseline
energy model still ends up with greater than 300 unmet hours or the baseline
energy model has more than 50 unmet hours greater than the proposed energy
model? </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Do you start increasing the baseline energy model airflows above
the auto sized airflow value in the thermal blocks that are having unmet hours
issues, or do you retain the auto sized airflow value and start manually
increasing the baseline heating and cooling capacities that were also auto
sized by eQuest using the 1.15 and 1.25 oversized coefficients?</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
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color:navy'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Kathryn Kerns</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Systems Specialist</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
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font-variant:small-caps;color:teal'>BCE Engineers, Inc.</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
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style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Carol Gardner
[mailto:<a href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com">cmg750@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 07, 2010 2:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kathryn Kerns<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Re: [Equest-users]
Confirmation for finding the Baseline Energy Model Supply Airfllow<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Kathryn,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
<br>
I think that .5 cfm/sf is too low. I never saw it used when I was designing
HVAC systems except for an occasionally used interior space. I immediately
change it to1.0 cfm/sf which I feel is a good place to start. For highly loaded
rooms with lots of internal gain I sometimes up that amount after I have
checked the other possible inputs.<br>
<br>
Carol<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>On
Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Kathryn Kerns <<a
href="mailto:kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com">kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Everyone,
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We
are having a discussion at the office about how to define the supply airflow
and energy model baseline. I pick the baseline system type per Appendix G
(packaged single zone, packaged VAV, etc., set the heating sizing ratio to 1.25
and the cooling sizing ratio to 1.15, leave the heating and cooling capacities
blank so the model will auto-size, and then set the default airflow to 0.5
cfm/sqft and let eQuest run. I then check to see if the baseline energy model
unmet hours are less than 300 and are within 50 hours of the proposed model. If
the baseline energy model is above 300 unmet hours or isn’t within 50
hours of the proposed model, I will then start tweaking the airflow in the
baseline energy model thermal blocks that are causing the unmet hour issues to
solve the problem. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Is
this what everyone else is doing or do leave the airflow with the default
values it calculated with the 0,5 cfm/sqft limit and enter capacity values in
the previously blank HVAC cooling and heating capacities slots so the baseline
energy model stops auto-sizing? </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Kathryn Kerns</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Systems
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
font-variant:small-caps;color:teal'>BCE Engineers, Inc.</span></b><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>| Ph: 253.922.0446 | Fx: 253.922.0896 |</span></b><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
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Carol Gardner PE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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Carol Gardner PE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre>________________________________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Fanning/Howey Associates, Inc. intends to send this transmission (including any attachments) only to the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>designated individual or entity. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender by replying<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to the electronic mail (if electronic) or by telephone at the number indicated on this document.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Fanning/Howey Associates, Inc. has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>electronic mail. Fanning/Howey Associates, Inc., will not accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>from the use of this electronic mail or attachments. Use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>of this message by unintended recipients is not authorized and maybe unlawful. Any information included in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>this transmission that is not related to contracts with our authorization, verbal or written, by Fanning/Howey<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Associates, Inc. may not be covered by our professional liability insurance. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><br>
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<pre>________________________________________________________________________________________
Fanning/Howey Associates, Inc. intends to send this transmission (including any attachments) only to the
designated individual or entity. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender by replying
to the electronic mail (if electronic) or by telephone at the number indicated on this document.
Fanning/Howey Associates, Inc. has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in the
electronic mail. Fanning/Howey Associates, Inc., will not accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising
from the use of this electronic mail or attachments. Use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction
of this message by unintended recipients is not authorized and maybe unlawful. Any information included in
this transmission that is not related to contracts with our authorization, verbal or written, by Fanning/Howey
Associates, Inc. may not be covered by our professional liability insurance.