<div>Hi Adam,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>while these systems cannot be modeled explicitly in DOE2.2/eQuest, it can be your attempt (as well others of us in similar shoes) to model something that is thermodynamically representative of what your are trying to estimate. For example could you get a VAV system to thermall act like a radiant system? Yes, in some ways by 'turning down' the power consumed by the fans because a radiant system doesn't consume fan energy with it's operation. Although a VAV system wouldn't be your best choice, it indicates the way you'll need to start thinking about how to get done what you are being asked to do with the limitations you find yourself with.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>In short, I'm learning on a project right now how to better represent active chilled beams for my project. My approach thus far is to set up (1st) a Dummy zone (i.e. very little floor area & zero loads) that I can attach a DOAS System (selected as VAV in eQuest) too. This will give me my primary ventilation air system that will "feed" ventilation air to my radiant system conditioned zones. The radiant system (represented by a PIU system with adjustments.) then has the command of "OA from: DOAS system" so that the occupied zones are fed ventilation air and conditioned by the radiant system.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>This is the approach I'm using for this project. Is it right? Is it wrong? Is there a better way?----It depends. I'm trying to make the best choices based on what my project needs and what information/support I have found from others. I also suggest doing a search for 'radiant systems' on the <a href="http://www.onebuilding.org/">www.onebuilding.org</a> archives for eQuest & Bldg-Sim at the least. You should find more info on which direction/approaches are being applied by others.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>In the end, if you have applied sound engineering theory & fundamentals, and have reviewed, double & triple checked your results against reference data, and then you still stand behind your numbers, you should feel that you have developed a pretty solid model (representation) of your project design. And that's the best we can do, until we have the opportunity to M&V the building after design and verify the validity of our estimatations post-occupancy. Has anyone else had the opportunity to put thier energy model results to the test, post-occupancy? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>pasha<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 6:53 AM, Adam M. McMillen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mcmillenam@kjww.com">mcmillenam@kjww.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Does anyone know if equest can model radiant ceilings (for heating and cooling)?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Adam McMillen</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">, LEED AP BD+C</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mechanical Engineer | <u><a href="mailto:mcmillenam@kjww.com" target="_blank"><span style="COLOR: black">mcmillenam@kjww.com</span></a></u></span></p>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt" class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 8pt">Building Design + Construction</span></i><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 8pt">, March 2008</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dakota Kelley<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 27, 2010 3:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> Nick Caton; M. Shields; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Unmet Hours</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">I put one small FYI at the end of Nick’s #3 below, in all caps for the sake of the plain text archives…</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Dakota</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Nick Caton [mailto:<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 27, 2010 2:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> M. Shields; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Unmet Hours</span></p></div></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Michael, </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">90.1’s passage (G3.1.2.2) regarding unmet hours requirements is something I had to re-read many times to get my head fully wrapped around it… Here’s my current interpretation:</span></p>
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<p><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><span>1.<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">You need to have 300 or fewer hours in each model.</span></p>
<p><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><span>2.<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">The proposed is not allowed to perform worse than the baseline by more than 50 unmet hours. If it does you have to make the baseline “underperform” so they’re within 50 of each other. </span></p>
<p><span style="COLOR: #984806"><span>3.<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">The baseline is permitted to perform worse than the proposed (by any degree) as long as it’s still 300 or fewer unmet hours. </span><span style="COLOR: #984806">THIS IS MY INTERPRETATION AS WELL, BUT IT IS WORTH MENTIONING THAT MORE THAN ONE LEED REVIEWER HAS INDICATED THE OPPOSITE. FOR EXAMPLE, I WAS TOLD I WAS OUT OF COMPLIANCE WHEN THE BASELINE HAD 65 UNMET COOLING HOURS AND THE PROPOSED HAD 5 UNMET COOLING HOURS. DO YOU ARGUE, OR JUST REDUCE THE BASELINE HOURS? IT PENALIZES THE BASELINE TO REDUCE THOSE HOURS, SO I WENT AHEAD AND DID WHAT I WAS TOLD. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">You haven’t said whether you’re talking about your baseline or proposed model, but the above points should guide you as to whether you need to make an adjustment. Refer to G3.1.2.2 for review and further info.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">~Nick</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>M. Shields<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 27, 2010 1:19 PM
<div class="im"><br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br></div><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Unmet Hours</span>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi All,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am working on filing out the LEED paperwork for submittal and for unmet hours I am wondering does the reviewer want the total unmet load hours for the building, or an average per zone? My building has about 100 zones, most of which have 0 unmet hours, but I have one zone which has significant (more than 50) unmet hours. Does this mean my model exceeds the requirement that the difference between the baseline and the proposed be less than 50 hours?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for any advice.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Michael Shields</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Book Antiqua','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Phone: 803-493-4507<br>Fax: 803-548-2511<br>Email: <a href="mailto:mshields@fstrategies.com" target="_blank">mshields@fstrategies.com</a></span></p>
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