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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Tough
situation – let me take you where I might go with this one (hopefully it
helps!):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>ASHRAE
90.1-2004 and ASHRAE 90.1-2007 state the same thing in Appendix G regarding
energy savings from DCV with the exception of the referenced mandatory DCV
requirement (2004 is Section 6.4.3.8 while 2007 is Section 6.4.3.9):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>“G3.1.2.5
Ventilation. Minimum outdoor air ventilation rates shall be the same for
the proposed and baseline building designs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Exception
to G3.1.2.5: When modeling demand-control ventilation in the proposed design
when its use is not required by 6.4.3.8.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
main difference is in the referenced section. In 2004 the mandatory
requirement was DCV for systems with supply OA exceeding 3000 CFM and serving
areas with occupant densities over 100 people per 1000 SF. In 2007, this
was made more stringent: spaces over 500SF with occupant densities over 40
people per 1000 SF served by systems having an air-side economizer, automatic
modulating control of the OA damper, or a design OA exceeding 3000 CFM.
Remember – these are the criteria that disallow the exception to
G3.1.2.5.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>This
is consistent with part of what your review comment states – ASHRAE 90.1
does not require you to model the DCV rates the same in the baseline and
proposed case and the rating authority (ASHRAE’s term, not the GBCI’s
or USGBC’s term) can take a position that the exception is or is not
allowed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>That
said, I would specifically take issue with the GBCI stating that they are the “rating
authority”. They are only allowed to determine if the project has
complied with the LEED standard as the USGBC has published it. If the
reference guide and rating system in effect at the time your project was
registered do not state what the reviewers did, file a customer service request
with both the USGBC and GBCI outside of the review process to request that they
address this. I have been told the backlog on this type of issue is 4-8
weeks, but you could be lucky (as I have been on occasion) and get a response
quickly. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
GBCI does not write the LEED rating system – they just certify projects
against the standard. I would also request specific documentation of
where that requirement is referenced in ASHRAE 90.1, ASHRAE 62.1 and/or the
LEED rating system and appropriate reference guide.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>This
is one of those areas we do bring up with clients – more outdoor air,
regardless of why you have it in the building, will carry an energy
premium. The amount of OA for a design needs to be carefully
planned. The credit for exceeding ASHRAE 62.1 by 30% is still only worth
1 point and the cost/benefit analysis of the extra outdoor air may not make
sense for a given project. We’ve had a number of clients skip that
one, especially those who cannot use productivity as part of their financial
justification (yup – they are out there!).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
prerequisites trump credits usually in the LEED review, so at the very least
your reviewer is assuming that since the prerequisite requires you to provide
ASHRAE 62.1 minimum OA then any DCV strategy NOT required by ASHRAE 90.1 6.4.3.8/9
would be optional and part of the design model but not the baseline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Good
luck!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#C75B12'>JEREMY R. POLING, PE, LEED AP</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:gray'>Associate Vice President,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:gray'>Senior Sustainability Analyst<br>
Strategic Services<br>
<i>Site Solutions | Operations | Sustainability</i></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
<br>
</span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#C75B12'>EPSTEIN</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><b><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:green'>Epstein is a firm believer in sustainability. We ask that you
please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.</span></i></b><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom
Serra<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 26, 2010 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Karen Walkerman<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] GBCI comments on DCV (Carol Gardner)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>No documentation exists
supporting the new method. GBCI is pulling the "rating
authority" card and implementing their own requirements. I
tried to argue my case that they are going against the procedure in ASHRAE, but
they did not change their requirement. I have expressed my opinion that a
document should be posted on the website that shows this new requirement but I
have yet to see anything new. Otherwise you may be expecting savings from
DCV that will be rejected and then the MEP or modeler will look foolish.
They should have implemented a cut-off date for projects already in the system
similar to the "District Thermal" change they made in May 2008.<br>
<br>
In reality the DCV will still result in energy savings but the paper design
savings will be lost. I believe GBCI and USGBC are trying to prevent
"gaming" of the system. A designer could grossly oversize the
ventilation system and then gain tremendous savings by implementing DCV.
This new requirement forces the designer to pursue other ventilation strategies
if they want to claim savings for DCV. Unfortunately the only way we are
learning of this requirement is through clarification questions. This
lack of communication is what really upsets me.<br>
<br>
The only solution that I see is that all spaces with demand control ventilation
should be designed to ASHRAE 62.1 minimums. Also, teams should not pursue
the 30% increase ventilation credit. <br>
<br clear=all>
Thomas Serra<br>
Project Manager<br>
EMO Energy Solutions, LLC<br>
3141 Fairview Park Drive, Suite 450<br>
Falls Church, VA 22042<br>
voice 703-205-0445 ex-113<br>
fax 703-205-0449<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Karen Walkerman <<a
href="mailto:kwalkerman@gmail.com">kwalkerman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Can anyone find documentation requiring the baseline to use
ASHRAE 62.1 ventilation rates? The table in EA Credit 1 under HVAC System
Selection for the baseline design states:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>"Outdoor ventilation rates should be identical to the
proposed case"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>There are no exceptions listed anywhere in the LEED
documentation (I am currently looking at LEED 2009, but have reviewed this in
the past under LEED 2.2).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>We have had DCV be approved in the past with no questions.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>--<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Karen<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Tom Serra <<a
href="mailto:tserra@emoenergy.com" target="_blank">tserra@emoenergy.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I've had many comments.
They have changed their perspective as the rating authority and are requiring
outside air treatment procedures that are outside of ASHRAE 90.1 section G
procedures. Typically design outside air volume is the same between the
baseline and proposed, but if you are using DCV they now require you to model
the baseline with the minimum ASHRAE 62.1 volume. So, if you have greater
OA volume in your proposed model, you may be penalized depending on your DCV
method and diversity schedule for occupants in the area with DCV control.<br>
<br>
Here is an example clarification question:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:.25in'><b>1.</b><b><span style='font-size:7.0pt'>
</span><span style='background:yellow'>CLARIFY:</span></b><span
style='background:yellow'> </span>Demand control ventilation was modeled
for credit for RTU1 and RTU2 in the Proposed case as indicated in Table 1.4 of
the Template; however, the outdoor air volume for RTU1 and RTU2 in the Baseline
model was not modeled at the ASHRAE 62.1-2004 minimum rates (1,066 cfm for each
RTU) as determined in EQp1: Minimum IAQ Performance. Appendix G allows schedule
changes for demand control ventilation as approved by the rating authority
(Table G3.1.4(Baseline)). As the rating authority, GBCI requires that the
outside air ventilation rates for the Baseline Case be modeled using minimum
ASHRAE 62.1-2004 rates wherever credit is taken for demand control ventilation
in the Proposed Case. The Proposed case minimum rates at design conditions must
be modeled as designed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:.25in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>TECHNICAL
ADVICE:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> Revise the Baseline
model so the minimum outdoor air volume is modeled at 1,066 cfm for RTU1 and
RTU2 in the Baseline model. In addition, provide revised SV-A reports for RTU1
and RTU2 reflecting the changes. Further, verify that all systems in both the
Baseline and Proposed case are modeled with zero outside air flow when fans are
cycled on to meet unoccupied setback temperatures unless health or safety
regulations mandate an alternate minimum flow during unoccupied periods (in
which case, the unoccupied outside air rates must be modeled identically in the
Baseline and Proposed Case).</span><br>
<br>
<br clear=all>
Thomas Serra<br>
Project Manager<br>
EMO Energy Solutions, LLC<br>
3141 Fairview Park Drive, Suite 450<br>
Falls Church, VA 22042<br>
voice 703-205-0445 ex-113<br>
fax 703-205-0449<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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