This is not a personal reflection on me, I'm sure, but I have never "got lucky, WRT App G systems, of course. <br><br>My process is just like yours, Pasha, but I have never even been tempted to have the Baseline and Proposed buildings in one model. Too much opportunity to screw up. To add to what you do, I try to remember to rename - Save As - my file each morning when I get started, that's providing I haven't been up all night modeling away and there's an actual morning start. I Save As "ModelName Proposed 7-23-10" or something like that. I find it really helpful not only in the short term but in the long term. Eventually, should I ever complete the dam model, I will get rid of the interim versions and just save the FinalProposed and FinalBaseline. If I'm working on a real complex son-of -a-gun, I may even do a SaveAs with another cue to let me know what it is Just In Case. I especially do this when I'm editing in the .inp file, which you all should learn to do sometime. It's really rough to lose a whole nights work because the new version of eQUEST mysteriously stripped out all of your data leaving only the headings of each section. Much better to only lose 5 hours worth of work. You can do it much faster the second time, right? <br>
<br>I have never run 2 models on 2 machines in my career. I am totally certain I'd screw up.....<br><br>Not bitter,<br>Carol<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Pasha Korber-Gonzalez <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com">pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>My approach (when doing LEED/ASHRAE 90.1 compliance models) varies with using one model file (one .pd2 file only) or using 2 model files (two .pd2 files) depending on what my proposed and baseline HVAC systems are.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>For example, if the Appendix G baseline HVAC system is #7 (VAV with chilled water) and my proposed design systems are VAV with geothermal I choose to set up two different model files (two different .pd2 files.) My actual approach would be this:</div>
<ol>
<li>create my proposed design model file in the wizard to nail down specific building footprint shape, custom zoning, custom windows, (and a few more specified inputs that are applied across the whole model.) Then I "SAVE AS" a copy with the key word "Wiz" somewhere in the title. </li>
<li>With my new "SAVE AS" copy of my wizard file I rename it with "ddedit" somewhere in the file name. I then switch to ddedit mode and continue - until I'm finished creating my entire <u>proposed design model file</u>. I run the simulation a few times to at least make sure that I have a clean sim file (i.e. no errors.)</li>
<li>I now do a "SAVE AS" again on my ddedit file and name the new copy "xxx-projectname-ddedit BASELINE" so that this new file is reflected as my ASHRAE 90.1 equivalent sim file. I go in and 'turn down' my proposed performance numbers to be equal to Appendix G baseline requirements. Keep in mind that in this example I have set up a VAV with geothermal system in the proposed, therefore; I now have to change the plant & air-side inputs to reflect the requirements for the App G baseline system 7 thus removing the geothermal system components and setting up a standard chiller & boiler plant system to serve a standard VAV air-side systems in my baseline model file.</li>
<li>Sim note: this is Pasha's approach because it is easiest for me to manage my inputs most efficiently. Other simulators will have thier own style and the key is in how you manage your input data and many variables to produce the correct simulations. The system changes can be made in the Parametric Tool within your first .pd2 file, but for Pasha this type of variable management can get confusing sometimes and I choose to take a few extra input steps in order for me to manage my inputs best.</li>
<li>After I have two .pd2 files (proposed & ASHRAE baseline) and I know that both files are clean (free of errors) I can now continue with my engineering analysis of the sim results. Once the baseline file results are normalized close to realistic expectations from reference data for the building type I am working on, then I can finish tweaking anything in my proposed file to ensure that I am showing a realistic amount of energy savings (given the ECM's that are applied against the baseline model.)</li>
<li>Final quality checks are then performed (i.e. reduced hours outside of throttling range, etc.) until I am to a point where I am satisfied with the sim results of both files. Now I can report my sim results to the client, design team, and/or LEED documentation if we are ready for submittal documents to be completed.</li>
</ol>
<div> </div>
<div>This is just my personal approach, I think its in line with how many other simulators approach thier projects. Just note that if for some reason I 'get lucky' on a project where the proposed design HVAC systems are exactly the same as the App G baseline HVAC system then I don't really have to work in 2 different .pd2 files because it is the case that my HVAC systems components are already setup correctly I can just work within one .pd2 file and make ECM adjustments via the parametric tool only.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Every simulator will develop thier own style of modeling and as long as you can manage your inputs and verify your outputs, then let your own style work for you.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>pkg </div>
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div><div></div><div class="h5">On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Martz, Amanda <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:amartz@klingstubbins.com" target="_blank">amartz@klingstubbins.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">The problem is that the difference between the baseline and the proposed isn’t just a difference in system types, there are other factors involved such as minimum flow rates, pump power, fan power, etc. Read appendix G, all of those criteria need to be implemented in the baseline. The proposed model should match your own design. I don’t think all of these changes could be done within the same model.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>tim<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:40 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> 'Demba Ndiaye'; 'Guoguang Le'; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users] Simulation with Baseline model,Thanks for Your Advice. I am unable to figure it out.</span></font></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Yes, and my experiment didn’t work by the way – must be why no comments were made. I thought it was working but alas the GSHP plant equipment button is greyed after going back into the wizard. so I suppose there is no way to compare LEED baseline with proposed in one eQuest model?</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">It did “appear” to work. The geothermal had a higher electric usage and way lower gas consumption – this made sense to me since the geothermal would have pumps & more intricate controls and the PSZ would eat up the gas in winter.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Anyway, now I am planning to have 2 model files and use the EEM wizard to rename the runs appropriately. I will then have to generate my own comparison reports if I want them I suppose. Had to find percent improvement on my own anyway. Attached is a simple spreadsheet showing the comparison. There may be a template for this, I’m just wandering through the energy simulation forest for the first time so any thoughts/feedback would be appreciated.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Maybe I need some training…</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Tim</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Demba Ndiaye
<div><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:17 AM<br></div><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Guoguang Le; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users] Simulation with Baseline model, Thanks for Your Advice. I am unable to figure it out.</span></font>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">eQuest uses “Baseline” to refer to your base model, with EEMs in mind. The word has actually nothing to do with either 90.1 or T24. </span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">For example, if you are doing a LEED model and create two models: one proposed and one LEED baseline. Both will be called “Baseline” by eQuest. </span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">_______________</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Demba NDIAYE</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Guoguang Le<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 21, 2010 10:09 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Equest-users] Simulation with Baseline model, Thanks for Your Advice. I am unable to figure it out.</span></font></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">To eQuest Expert,</span></font></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I have a question to beg your answer. For an equest model, after I input some data and then run simulation, the report showed "baseline". What does this "baseline" mean? Is it meaning min requirement by Ashrae 90.1, T24, based on what I just input data or something else? In other words, how to run baseline model by using eQuest? </span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I appreciate your time very much! Thanks Lot!!!</span></font></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Best regards,</span></font></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">James Le</span></font></p></div></td></tr></tbody></table>
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