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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Carol – wow! Your verbosity makes me so proud…
I managed to learn something darn useful to boot, thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>John, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I fully agree that there’s a fluid line of professionalism
and expertise in this body of respondents, and I suppose that’s likely inherent
to any resource without a paid staff. In some ways, it’s a real benefit
as you can get feedback from so many perspectives. Many of us are “self-taught”
in the sense that we’ve had to come up with our own way of getting
various things done – and it’s always a benefit to the group when
we compare notes… Just as the seasoned veterans will share “tried
and true” means and methods, so do the less-experienced discover/stumble-into
innovative ways to approach a problem that may save those veterans time and
frustration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As someone on this list once advised me, sometimes the best way
to ask a question is to deliberately give a wrong (!) answer. I haven’t
exercised any intentional mis-information, but I do respond with partial
answers as I can, and make clear what I don’t know. This approach often
elicits responses from otherwise apprehensive individuals containing their own
experiences and insights. People are more prone to provide a partial response
once the ball is rolling, so to speak. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The “quality of queries” on the lists ebbs and flows
over time with regard to the degree of sophistication and effort on the part of
the poster. Every once in a while, new subscribers need to be reminded of
the implications this voluntary list entails… In order to get the
best response, they must recognize a degree of courtesy, professionalism, and background
knowledge as prerequisite to others being inclined to volunteer their time to
help out a total stranger. People sometimes don’t realize this is
an international body of subscribers, and an email spell-check/proofread can be
very helpful when asking a complicated question – sometimes attaching a
representative cutsheet or your project files is the fastest way to begin
discussing a topic… stuff like that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The “quality of responses” on the other hand is
something that is terribly easy to take for granted. Any response to a
query on this list is ultimately one individual lending their time and
experience to help another. Personally, I choose to contribute partial
answers where I don’t have the time to address an otherwise broader
question. Sometimes it’s impossible for the asker to know that a
question is actually very broad, and it’s most helpful in the short term to
point this out so they may “narrow” their question. Other
times, it’s most helpful, even if it appears blunt/rude, to direct a questioner
to “read this” or “look the answer up here” (“teach
a man to fish…” as the saying goes). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Also, it’s a common situation to see one big email with a
series of questions (of varying breadth/complexity). When listed or bulleted
out, it becomes easier to respond to the whole post, but ultimately such posters
should anticipate they may receive partial answers to the posting. For
example: Perhaps I feel I have the time to respond, but only know a complete answer
to 4 out of 5 questions… should I not respond at all? Extrapolating
that line of thinking to the everyone - perhaps nobody would respond to that
post. I’d rather encourage anyone willing to contribute to
definitely share what you know, and don’t feel pressured to know
everything – others on the list can “fill in the gaps” as may
be necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This branches into an elephant in the room – questions are
certainly posed that <u>nobody</u> knows the answer to, indeed with no solution!
As long as it has been around, the science/art of building energy modeling still
seems (to my young eyes) a fairly bleeding-edge field of study and practice. Students
and other end-users getting their feet wet in this skillset should recognize coming
in that it’s not unheard of to run into a question nobody has explicitly asked
before! This is where the partial answers, experiences and open suggestions
available through a ‘meeting-of-the-minds’ in venues like the
onebuilding.org lists can be a key resource for one’s own search for a
solution (delving into google, DOE2 docs, digging in the archives, etc). Such
queries are where a community like this really shines over the potential for any
support department/hotline. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>That said, an expert staff of compensated, full-time eQuest/DOE2
answer-givers would certainly be a welcome thing, but it would be a complement
to (not a replacement of) the function of this existing community at-large.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In light of the context, I’d like to avoid saying that’s
my two cents, but there you have it =)!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB2727.490715C0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a
href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Carol Gardner
[mailto:cmg750@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 16, 2010 11:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Waller<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nick Caton; <equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org>; Dakota
Kelley<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] eQUEST unconditioned spaces<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Boy, I guess it's been a long
week for many of us. Since my name was brought up I thought I'd chime in.
Thanks for the shout out, John<br>
<br>
I was reading this email chain and thanking my lucky stars that I learned how
to do this stuff back before dirt was invented and you had to enter your input
deck line by line using BDL. It gave me a pretty solid background as it turns
out. <br>
<br>
It seems to me that some of you guys are spending entirely too much time in the
Wizard doing things that might be able to be done easier in the DDedit. I know
I've said this before. For instance if you think of an unconditioned zone for
awhile you realize that it really doesn't matter what system it gets attached
to, its unconditioned. You will see on your SV-A report that there isn't any
cfm for it or any load. If there is you are doing something wrong. I always
makesure that the space and the thermal zone are both labeled "unconditioned"
because I don't trust eQUEST for a minute if there are inconsistencies. <br>
<br>
So back the the utility of having a "reliable authority" dedicated to
answering questions on this site. While I can't claim entire reliability, I ran
across something last week that really had me trembling with trepidation, sorry
it's Friday night after all, related to eQUEST.<br>
<br>
If you'll remember I asked a question about EIR curve fits last week to which I
received a resounding non response. I'm pretty sure I know why and it's
probably bad news for the results we are giving people. I don't think people
really know how to do curve fits properly. I know I learned something new as I
researched and researched every where I could think of to find the answer. And
even then I had to make a desperation call to one of the few real experts. <br>
<br>
Some background on the problem: all curves using raw data need to be normalized
around ARI data points except for refrigeration compressors, see Volume 2r
written in 2008. So if you are entering a curve, say the cooling capacity as a
function of the entering wet bulb and the outdoor dry bulb, you would have
three lines of data: 2 independent and 1 dependent. The independents would be
your selected wet bulb temperatures and your selected dry bulb temperatures.
You are allowed to enter up to 20. The tricky part is when you specify the
dependent value: the capacity. The person who I am helping with this model had
simply entered the capacities as they varied based on the temps: 307 kBtu, 299
kBtu, and 292 kBtu (the ARI capacity), etc. [Note: I'm just making these
numbers up.], and didn't normalize them around the ARI data point capacity. If
they had the numbers would have been: 1.051, 1.024, 1.0, etc. And the file ran
with no indication of an error anywhere. I've seen this over the years in some
surprising places. It scares me because I don't know how the results are being
effected. I guess no one else does either because I haven't heard anyone saying
anything like "hey I entered bad data into eQUEST and it ran" or hey
the LEED reviewer said XX, fill in the blank. <br>
<br>
Anyway, back to the EIR curve-fit. With further research I found the actual
equation that is being used in eQUEST which are EIRt = Cooling EIR *
Cool-EIR-FT (EWB,ODB) * Cool-EIR-FPLR (PLR). That's when I asked my question to
you all: what equation type do I use when there are three independents as there
seem to be here - EWB, ODB & PLR. No answer. So I placed the call and was
told that eQUEST solves the equation using 2 curves: the EIR varying based on
the EWB and ODB, normalized around the ARI EIR as discussed above, and the EIR
varying based on the part load conditions. I didn't know that before because I
usually can avoid curve fits. In this case, however, I was modeling a VRF
system so it's pretty much required since they are not like the current systems
that are accessible to us. Luckily I had really good data from Daikin, although
it took awhile to get it. I was modeling European units, too, just to further
complicate things.<br>
<br>
Anyway, lesson learned. Sorry to be so long winded, I kind of reminded myself
of Nick here. Sorry, Nick, just kidding! Your answers do lean towards being
thorough, though, but that's good. You have a great knowledge of how to use the
Wizards as well as the DDedit. I think that in this case, though, my past
experience of entering the line by line BDL really helped me. When we had to do
that we had more time to think about how and why we were doing things and
generally more access to the engineering formulas behind it all. With the
friendly front ends we have now, and make no mistake I love them, modeling has
become more of an art and less of a science. This is both good and bad. It's
why I think that there is room for having a dedicated, experienced resources
person for eQUEST as well as the users of this listserv. There's a lot to know
and it takes time to learn it.<br>
<br>
I rest my case.<br>
<br>
Carol <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 7:21 PM, John Waller <<a
href="mailto:jwaller@email.arizona.edu">jwaller@email.arizona.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Nick,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>You are absolutely right! My (so-called) feathers get
ruffled way too easily, which is why I make a conscieous effort not to comment
in here unless I'm 'mostly' confident that my contributions could even
potentially benefit someone encountering a problem similar to one I've
encountered in the past. Such constraint on behalf of all contributors would do
wonders for such an environment. The quality of query in which I witness here
for the most part is astonishing. (i.e. 'how do spell equest'?). Rather than
doing the research on their own, or at the very least, exploring the
'onebuilding' query history, this platform makes it all too easy to ask the
infamous 'stupid question', though I realize there exists no such thing. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I am beginning to believe that Carol is right in suggesting
a more professional and reliable authority to more acurately respond to user
querries. And someone else who suggested an eQUEST-wiki might just be spot on.
Thought I will admit, in an age where electronic response has become the norm,
there is certainly something something quite a bit more 'personal' about
receiving a reply from a beating heart. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>As such, it is my feeling, that any 'responder', should not
respond so specifically so as to ignore the larger question an inquiry might be
addressing, particularly when a prior responder has already replied and
explicitly requests additional input on his offered solution.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In the spirit of community (as you have suggested) I would
challange anyone who posits a potential solution to address the formal issue at
large, rather than simply offering his(her) two-cents in contrast simply for
the purpose of seeming 'right'.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>To do so, I am sure, would more likely benefit the group as
a whole. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>John Waller <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
On Jul 16, 2010, at 2:55 PM, "Nick Caton" <<a
href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi John,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>My perceptive powers are not the
greatest, as my wife will assure you, but I’m failing to see the reason
to get any feathers need to be hackled here (I did miss your reply, perhaps it
wasn’t copied to the list?)….</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The reality that DOE2 has a “no
child-zone left behind act” of sorts is just the nature of the beast, and
nobody is arguing that’s unintuitive – it’s simply something
we have to learn as we become familiar with the engine. I don’t
know that I’d expect this issue to be resolved in the next major update
as it’s something a user can work around (unlike some other more
pertinent issues), as Dakota is plainly demonstrating with his (typically)
thorough response.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Everyone is here to help each other,
rest assured (^_^)b, those who aren’t don’t stick around long, and
Dakota’s certainly been around for awhile! If you have a
“more correct” or otherwise better solution to handling
unconditioned zones before or after the wizards, I would personally like to
know also – I do the same as Dakota. I understand others simply
ignore the zone grouping wizard screens altogether (though I find them to be
quite a time-saver), so his inclusion of “simply do this” in
detailed is very appropriate to the group at large…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Wishing everyone a safe and happy
weekend,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><image001.jpg></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com"
target="_blank" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>John David Waller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 16, 2010 3:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dakota Kelley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] eQUEST unconditioned spaces</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Maybe
I was too vague in my reply.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I,
too, was hoping for some insight into this particular issue.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>While
I do believe this to be a software (developer) oversight, I also believe that
any offered solution(s) to such a 'problem' could be handled with slightly more
dignity; perhaps even some humility!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It
is more likely that 'this' is a software issue more than anything else.
Hopefully this, and many other issues, will have been addressed in
'3.6.4'!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It
makes absolutely no sense to me to assign a system to 'unconditioned space'
that is being used to 'condition', condition space. Since every 'space', or
zone requires the assignment of a specific mechanical system, then wouldn't it
be likely [as in the 'real world' vs. our 'virtual' one, be equipped with
'NO" system since it is 'NOT' conditioned, versus an 'operable' system
that supplies conditioning to a space that requires such? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>While
it agreed that all zone 'must belong to a system', I'm not convinced that your
[emphatic] solution employs the ideal method for addressing such an issue.
It seems to me that you're placing her back to the same point in which
she came to discover such a unique condition. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Looking
forward to a legitimate response!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Sincerely--<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>John<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Dakota Kelley <<a
href="mailto:dakotak@teliospc.com" target="_blank">dakotak@teliospc.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Amber,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>If I’m following your description, you must be
specifying the unconditioned zone in Shell Wizard/Screen 2/Zone Characteristics
button. Then you’re obviously specifying system-per-floor in the
HVAC wizard. This sounds like it should work, but what is happening is
Shell Wizard/Screen 14 settings are trumping Shell Wizard/Screen 2. There
are two solutions:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='color:#1F497D'>1)</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:#1F497D'>Simply
change the zones to unconditioned in the detailed interface.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='color:#1F497D'>2)</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:#1F497D'>Create
a new zone group in Shell Wizard/Screen 14. Assign the unconditioned
zones to this group, and then make sure the “Conditioned” check box
is <i>not</i> checked. Assign the group to whatever system makes sense
and move on (making sure that at least one conditioned zone group is also
assigned to that system). All zones have to belong to a system, but if
they’re unconditioned their parent system is irrelevant. This
method is only slightly longer than the one above, but it lets you stay in the
wizard.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>If you try to leave an unconditioned “on its
own”, which I interpret as being assigned to its own single-zone system,
you’ll get an error saying every system has to have at least one
conditioned zone. Let me know if I have misunderstood you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr style='min-height: 73.5pt'>
<td width=86 valign=top style='width:64.5pt;background:white;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;
min-height: 73.5pt;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;
background-position-y:0%'>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%'>
<tr style='min-height: 73.5pt;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:
0%;background-position-y:0%'>
<td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Error! Filename not specified.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:black'>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in;text-indent:27.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>DAKOTA KELLEY </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in;text-indent:27.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Project
Designer | Energy Analyst</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>
</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>Office:
214.744.6199
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>
Cell: 214.280.3825</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>
Fax: 214.744.0770</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'><a href="http://www.teliospc.com"
target="_blank">http://www.teliospc.com</a>
3535 Travis St. Suite 115</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'><a href="mailto:dakotak@teliospc.com"
target="_blank">dakotak@teliospc.com</a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>
</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>Dallas, TX 75204</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Amber
Welsh [mailto:<a href="mailto:amber@timmonsdesigneng.com" target="_blank">amber@timmonsdesigneng.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] eQUEST unconditioned spaces</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>What
is the best way to handle unconditioned spaces in eQUEST? Right now, I am
zoning it separate and calling it unconditioned in the WIZARD. Then, when
I assign systems, I am putting the unconditioned zone in a system with a
conditioned space and saying “ one system per floor”. Is this
the proper way to do it?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
have tried just leaving the zone as unconditioned and on its own, but then when
I do the “permit submittal” calculation it still asks for the fan
flow and cooling capacity for that zone.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;color:black'>Amber Welsh, P.E. </span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;color:#D9D9D9'>|</span></b><b><span style='font-size:
10.5pt;color:black'> </span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;color:#A6A6A6'>Associate</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#A6A6A6'>LEED® Accredited
Professional</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:8.5pt;color:black'> <br>
397 5th Street NE,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:8.5pt;color:black'>Atlanta, GA 30308 <br>
(v) 404.810.9020<br>
(c) 678.488.1967<br>
</span><a href="http://timmonsdesigneng.com/" target="_blank"><span
style='font-size:8.5pt;color:red'>timmonsdesigneng.com</span></a><span
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Carol Gardner PE<o:p></o:p></p>
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