Well after reading Varkie and Nick's response to this I realize I've been pretty far away from the actual design of a building for a long time. I used to get to do that but as a self-employed WOMAN I now just do the energy modeling. Kind of funny, too, cause when I graduated, I immediately went into energy conservation, it was new and exciting, and then tried to go "backwards" to HVAC design with great difficulty. No one wants to train an HVAC designer and pay them real money. Also, at that time, the late '80s, it was popular in the A&E firms to encourage us women to do energy conservation; dare I say it was considered women's work? To my credit I fought for design experience because I realized I couldn't do a decent energy model if I didn't understand how to design a system. Boy, I wish others would realize that is still true.....<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Varkie C Thomas <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:thomasv@iit.edu">thomasv@iit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><p>During the design process, products are selected from performance data catalogs and equipment selection programs. All manufacturers provide this. Supporting customers and clients is a normal sales and marketing method. </p>
</div>
<br>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> I just wanted to add my
2 cents worth on the Trace HAP issue and Nick's comment they should add
compatibility to </font>eQuest. I fully agree they should. More and
more of my specifying work is required to be generic. I refuse to pay
either Carrier or Trane to use their program and do all their work for
them. Both programs are very good but they are basically an auto-size
program for either Carrier or Trane products. You have to admire the
marketing aspect but with eQuest being a free generic program both
companies have lost the war. The specifying engineer pays good money
to use their proprietary program, does all the work getting the project
model built and working, sends the model to them, they press the button
and the whole job is itemized and costed, they just have to fill out
the bid forms. The company which lost has to take the paper spec,
build the model in their proprietary program, get it running and then
output the job with their units. I'm not sure how a lot of this works
now as I'm mostly in the generic world but in decades past Trane and
Carrier would battle to be the named manufacturer on a job. There was
major assistance from their engineers in doing the spec. In
recognition of the assistance, if you were willing to load their
auto-size program for them you could/would receive a free seat. Your
recognition for them is their name on the project units and the job
input handed to them on a platter. The downside of this system is both
companies know each others units intimately. Some jobs can be
configured/manipulated to put the other company at a disadvantage,
sometimes to the detriment of the owners system. As software, eQuest
does compete with HAP and Trace. But the money for a modelling program
pales compared the the real work of winning a job. This is why both
Trane and Carrier will give their program away free to their favourite
specifying engineers. They just off loaded a major part of the work to
be able to bid a job. Their major competitor is behind the 8 ball
because they are starting from scratch to bid the job (and every other
smaller company). eQuest could actually make everyones job easier,
maybe Carrier and Trane could throw some money or expertise into eQuest
to help make it better and compatible with their programs. The
modelling job would only get done once, each company could take the
file and convert it to their program, press the button and be ready to
bid the job. It would also get the owner a better job. Both Carrier
and Trane can easily check and tweak the job, probably provide some
very good ideas to make the project better. Face it both those
companies have some major engineering horsepower, and can provide
valuable input. They would lose a marketing device but in the end I
believe it would save them a lot of money reworking jobs they didn't
get the specification on. Ultimately they would be able to bid more
jobs, sell more units, make more money. The customer would get a
better system as well because money wasted on the dance could be
applied to making the job better. Equest could be made better faster
with their help. I think everyone would benefit.<br>
Nice shot Carol<span><span> :-) </span></span>.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
<br>
On 16/07/2010 10:54 AM, Nick Caton wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Carol
I think I can fill in a response:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">More
often than not, big complicated energy modeling projects
typically result in another individual doing the HVAC design. When
that
other person regularly uses HAP and/or Trace to run sizing loads, we
ultimately
have to butt heads to be sure eQuest is arriving at similar answers,
and it usually
is off in one zone or another by a big factor. Quirks like
unexpectedly
huge people densities or particular OA requirements get missed by
eQuest’s
occupancy libraries.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The
concept of being able to get to a certain point of the
energy model, avoiding inputting any system sizing parameters
(Auto-size CFM’s,
capacities, etc), and then import such information from another’s work
(rather than doing it by hand from cryptic output reports), is really
appealing
as that’s a part of the job that’s both un-fun and drawn out.
It does encourage using the model to tweak the HVAC design process to a
more
intimate degree than we might otherwise, once the two sets of results
are
calibrated to each other, which I think is great.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Envisioning
this, I think it would manifest as an option in
Trace or HAP (or similar loads program) to create a text file (*.inp)
containing the variables you’d want to import located under the
respective zones/systems. There would have to be some graphic/visual
means of telling Trace/HAP the cryptic zone/system names generated by
eQuest to
make this a time-efficient feature.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">To
Matthew’s question, I’m afraid this concept will
be remaining in perpetual la-la-land unless Trane or Carrier
decide/realize
they might get a lot more business by assigning this interoperability
feature to
their respective software developers. As they both perceive their
software packages as “competitors,” to eQuest, I don’t see it
happening anytime soon, but I’ve been wrong before!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
have heard scattered reports (and even seen a few screenshots)
of people in the “real world” managing to get GBS/Revit to
interface via export into eQuest – but my personal attempts (3 times)
have all failed along the way… it seems rooted to model manipulations
that Revit MEP cannot do, which Architectural can (and we don’t have
the
budget for) that are required for a clean export. To my limited
understanding, with this process you’re getting geometries (polygons,
surfaces) defined, and possibly spaces/zones and constructions, but
beyond that
you’re left to do everything else without the wizards.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">PS:
If any man wants to contribute woman-hours (or vice versa, I
won’t judge!) to making that eQuest-wiki concept happen, then make it
known =). By contributing, I’m explicitly suggesting being willing
to write up one or more articles, mini-guides, or how-to’s.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img src="" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" width="119" height="37"></span><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK
CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);">PROJECT
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<div style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol
Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Matthew W. Higgins<br>
<b>Cc:</b> eQuest user forum<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] eQuest Wiki & Other Question</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">Sorry, Matthew, but
I can't
resist this: if they were "woman-hours" at stake there would be fewer
and the outcome better. You left yourself wide open for that one!<br>
<br>
Related to your second paragraph, can you give me an example of why you
would
want to go from eQUEST to XML/Trace? I am stumped as to why you want to
do such
a thing.<br>
<br>
Carol</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Matthew W.
Higgins <<a href="mailto:MWHiggins@bpce.com" target="_blank">MWHiggins@bpce.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Seems
like a lot of the traffic lately (past month or so) could be lightened
by the
eQuest Wiki that was mentioned. Anything come of that? Of course,
keeping
respectful of the fact that these are man-hours at stake to create it
all.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Also,
unrelated, I’m aware of the workflow using GreenBuilding Studio to go
from Revit to eQuest and the ability to bring XML into Trace, but is
there a
workflow to go from eQuest BDL to Trace or back out to an XML, file
then into
Trace? Seems like GBS could go from eQuest to XML/Trace, primarily for
time
savings when creating geometries.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thoughts?
Thanks.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Matthew
Higgins, ASHRAE-HBDP, LEED-AP</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Energy
Engineer</i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(15, 15, 101);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(15, 15, 101);">Bridgers & Paxton Consulting
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87109</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(15, 15, 101);">505-883-4111</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(15, 15, 101);">505-888-1436 Fax</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(0, 32, 96);"><a href="mailto:mwhiggins@bpce.com" target="_blank">mwhiggins@bpce.com</a>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(79, 129, 189);"><a href="http://www.bpce.com" target="_blank">www.bpce.com</a></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE</p>
</div>
<pre><fieldset></fieldset>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Carol Gardner PE<br>
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