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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Sam, et al,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Agreeably, the language in the description of the step 2 requirements
is somewhat ambiguous at best. If this description is used without
looking at Table 4 on the following page, the baseline HVAC system requirements
for the aggregate model could easily be misinterpreted. However, Table 4
clearly mentions both gas furnaces and packaged equipment for the baseline systems.
I suggest using the system types as described in Table 4 in spite of Heather’s
recent review experience.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Keep in mind that previous reviews do not set precedent for future
reviews and the reviewers are mere mortals like the rest of us! Good luck
and have a great day!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Cam Fitzgerald<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Sam Mason
[mailto:sam.mason@atelierten.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 09, 2010 6:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Heather.Hardie-Hill@CH2M.com; Cam Fitzgerald; malmasri@ems-int.com;
eQUEST-users@onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Baseline Modeling as per
LEEDdistrictcoolingrequirements<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks
for the response with a real project outcome. The sentence Heather
highlights below is my reasoning for keeping fan coils in both cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hopefully
the new DES guidelines will provide a more clear path for this type of modeling
(Through the grapevine it is drafted and awaiting release).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Sam
Mason<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Atelier
Ten<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
Heather.Hardie-Hill@CH2M.com [mailto:Heather.Hardie-Hill@CH2M.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 09, 2010 6:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> cam@energyopportunities.com; Sam Mason; malmasri@ems-int.com;
eQUEST-users@onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Baseline Modeling as per
LEEDdistrictcoolingrequirements<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>I just went through a review process for this!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>I initially interpreted it the same way the Cam says below however
the LEED reviewer disagreed with me and said I should model it as Sam describes
below.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>I think the catch is this: on page 6 it says " For such
projects the secondary equipment within the building is modeled as described in
table 3 above (i.e., the same way as in step 1" it also says "The
proposed case modeling requirements differ from those in ASHRAE 90.1-2004
Appendix G; however, the baseline case is modeled as instructed in Appendix
G."... I think what this means is that the baseline models should be
the same in both case 1 and case 2... and everything should be modeled as
described in appendix G except the specific type of system as listed in table
3.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>if the above sounds confusing feel free to call me.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><strong><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:purple'>Heather Hardie-Hill<o:p></o:p></span></strong></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><strong><span style='font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray;font-weight:normal'>EIT, LEED</span></strong><strong><sup><span
style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray;font-weight:
normal'>TM</span></sup></strong><strong><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray;font-weight:normal'> AP</span></strong><span
style='color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><strong><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray;font-weight:normal'>Advanced
Design and Simulation</span></strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><em><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray;font-style:normal'>CH2M HILL</span></b></em><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><em><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray;font-style:normal'>Industrial &
Advanced Technologies</span></b></em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>2020 SW Fourth Ave</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>Portland, OR 97201</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span lang=PT-BR style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>ph: (503).872.4509</span><span
lang=PT-BR style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span lang=PT-BR style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>e:
heather.hardie-hill@ch2m.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=PT-BR style='color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [</span><a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>] On
Behalf Of Cam Fitzgerald<br>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:11 AM<br>
To: Sam Mason; Mohammad Almasri; eQUEST-users@onebuilding.org<br>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Baseline Modeling as per LEED
districtcoolingrequirements<br>
<br>
All:<br>
<br>
I hate to disagree with Sam's response, but on page 6 of the USGBC DES document
the description of the Model for Step 2 states, "The proposed case
modeling requirements differ from those in ASHRAE 90.1-2004 Appendix G;
however, the baseline case is modeled as instructed in Appendix G."
So for step 2 the baseline HVAC systems for the residential spaces would be
PTHP, not AHU's as required for step 1.<br>
<br>
Hope this helps!<br>
<br>
Cam S. Fitzgerald, PE, LEED AP<br>
<br>
Energy Opportunities, LLC<br>
a 7group company<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [</span><a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>] On
Behalf Of Sam Mason<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 9:50 AM<br>
To: Mohammad Almasri; eQUEST-users@onebuilding.org<br>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Baseline Modeling as per LEED
districtcoolingrequirements<br>
<br>
Mohammad,<br>
You will keep the same the same system from step 1 to step 2 - fan coils with
hot water boiler - per Table 3 in the DES guidelines. In step 2, you will
create a minimally compliant cooling plant based on Appendix G modeling
parameters and attach the fan coils to the plant.<br>
<br>
Sam<br>
--<br>
Sam Mason<br>
Atelier Ten<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [</span><a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>] On
Behalf Of Mohammad Almasri<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 8:38 AM<br>
To: eQUEST-users@onebuilding.org<br>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Baseline Modeling as per LEED district
coolingrequirements<br>
<br>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
I Am working now on a Residential tower supplied by a district cooling plant .
The proposed design completed as per the LEED required treatment of district
cooling . and two model performed (one with virtual chillers and the other one
with chilled water meter to reflect the chilled water cost).<br>
<br>
The problem that I have now is in the baseline.<br>
<br>
In step one (modeled as cost neutral), the document say that the system will be
based on table 3 instead of ASHRAE appendix G , system 2 (FCU will be use
instead of PTHP).<br>
<br>
Now for step two , what the system will be ; it should be a PTHP or a FCU
with a chillers ?<br>
<br>
Please I need your advice .<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Mohammad Al-Masri<br>
Simulation Engineer<br>
CAPM,LEED AP BD+C<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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