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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=065015820-01072010><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I haven't found one yet but I did find the variable
"unweighted heat transfer from wall to space". I just used the current
zone temp and q = u*a*dt to find the wall temp. What do you think about
that?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN
lang=en-us><B><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>John Grando</FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2> </FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>LEED
AP</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>| </FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#808080
size=2>Mechanical Engineer</FONT><BR></B><FONT face=Arial color=#808080
size=2>Phone: 212-615-3705 | Fax: 212-615-3700</FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>jgrando@cosentini.com</FONT><BR><BR><B></B><B></B><B><FONT
face=Arial color=#808080 size=2>Cosentini Associates - A Tetra Tech
Company<BR></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial color=#808080 size=2>Two Pennsylvania
Plaza - Third Floor - New York, NY 10121</FONT><BR></SPAN><A
href="http://www.cosentini.com/"><SPAN lang=en-us><U></U><U></U><U><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>www.cosentini.com</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN
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<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Sami, Vikram
[mailto:Vikram.Sami@perkinswill.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 01, 2010
4:56 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Alex Krickx; Grando, John;
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: MRT in
eQUEST<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Actually
- I don't know of a way to get surface temps out of eQUEST - I don't think there
is an option in the hourly reports. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I
could be wrong though. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Vikram
Sami</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">, LEED
AP<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Sustainable
Design Analyst<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">1382
Peachtree St. NE, Atlanta, GA 30309<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">404.892.5823 </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
e: vikram.sami@perkinswill.com </SPAN><SPAN
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href="http://www.perkinswill.com/"><SPAN
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 3pt"><B><SPAN
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</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #add425; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Ideas
+ buildings that honor the broader goals of society</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Alex Krickx
[mailto:akrickx@seriousmaterials.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 01, 2010
4:49 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Sami, Vikram; Grando, John;
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: MRT in
eQUEST<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Vikram,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks
for correcting me – I mixed up the terminology. I guess the point I was trying
to make was, although MRT will vary throughout the zone at each point in space –
is it unfair to take a representative point (say, at the center of each zone)
and calculate the MRT at that point? In a perimeter zone during summer the MRT
would be hotter closer to the window, and cooler closer to the core, so taking a
central point would seem reasonable. What seems difficult to me would be to take
the surface temperatures (which I am now assuming from your response we CAN
retrieve from eQUEST), calculate the solid angles and figure out to automate the
process for every zone…<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I
take your point that this is an average for the zone. My gut says as long as
you’re not averaging across a whole floorplate that this methodology would be
sound. I don’t mean to be contrary, I’m just interested in learning what the
software is capable of.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Alex
Krickx<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #262f13; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Alex
Krickx<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
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Energy Specialist<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
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<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Sami, Vikram
[mailto:Vikram.Sami@perkinswill.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 01, 2010
1:40 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Alex Krickx; Grando, John;
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: MRT in
eQUEST<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">The
surface property is really a surface temperature (not MRT). <A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_radiant_temperature">MRT</A> is not
really a surface property of a single surface - its the average of radiant
fluxes acting on a point in space. The point is the fluxes are a result of the
view factors (solid angles) of the surfaces from that point - which is precisely
why you cannot have a single MRT for a zone. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Vikram
Sami</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">, LEED
AP<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Sustainable
Design Analyst<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">1382
Peachtree St. NE, Atlanta, GA 30309<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">t:
404-443-7462 f: </SPAN><SPAN lang=ES
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e: vikram.sami@perkinswill.com </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><A
href="http://www.perkinswill.com/"><SPAN
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 3pt"><B><SPAN
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</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #add425; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Ideas
+ buildings that honor the broader goals of society</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Alex Krickx
[mailto:akrickx@seriousmaterials.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 01, 2010
4:33 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Sami, Vikram; Grando, John;
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: MRT in
eQUEST<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I
read John’s question as asking: can you get the MRT for each surface? – perhaps
I misread it. I would assume, though, that if you could get it for each surface,
than you could calculate the PMV of each zone. Your end result would show that
zone A had -4 and B had +4 and they wouldn’t be averaged together. This approach
would understand and provide results that back up Vikram’s point that a space
near a façade will experience different MRT than a core zone. Is that not
possible in eQUEST?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Alex
Krickx<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #262f13; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Alex
Krickx<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Sami,
Vikram<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 01, 2010 1:17 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Grando,
John; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Equest-users]
MRT in eQUEST<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">John,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I'm
guessing you wouldn't be doing this analysis on a project unless you were
concerned about thermal comfort issues from skin related stimuli.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">So
if you had a PMV of +4 in one zone and -4 in another would you say that on
average everyone in your building is comfortable? <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Calculating
MRT in a lumped node simulation program is kind of like that - an average MRT
for a zone is often misleading. For example - a room with a large west window in
the summer time will have a much higher MRT for someone sitting next to the
window than for someone sitting near an interior wall on the other side -
especially if there is direct sunlight in the room. Similarly - in winter -
proximity to a north window might result in a much lower MRT than for someone
sitting near the core. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Bottom
line - you pick the tool that's appropriate to the analysis. You really want a
full-field solution tool (like a CFD program or a thermal software like
RADtherm) to perform comfort analyses like this. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Vikram
Sami</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">, LEED
AP<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Sustainable
Design Analyst<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">1382
Peachtree St. NE, Atlanta, GA 30309<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">t:
404-443-7462 f: </SPAN><SPAN lang=ES
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">404.892.5823 </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
e: <A
href="mailto:vikram.sami@perkinswill.com">vikram.sami@perkinswill.com</A>
</SPAN><A href="http://www.perkinswill.com/"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; TEXT-DECORATION: none">www.perkinswill.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 3pt"><B><SPAN
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</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #add425; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Ideas
+ buildings that honor the broader goals of society</SPAN><SPAN
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Grando,
John<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 01, 2010 3:36 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Equest-users] MRT in
eQUEST<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hello
All,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I have to calculate
the PMV for a zone and I did the analysis already in eQUEST. I need the
mean radiant temperature though to perform this calc. I am pretty sure
that MRT is not an output variable so I'm guessing I need to calculate the wall
temperatures and do it myself. Has anyone tried to do this before? I
didn't find anything in the archives or in the DOE22 manual.
Thanks.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">John
Grando</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">LEED
AP</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">|
</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Mechanical
Engineer</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN
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<DIV>
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