<div>I'm with Vik- I thought it was only one space to one zone, but if someone has a new way of things, please share...</div>
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<div>pkg<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Sami, Vikram <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Vikram.Sami@perkinswill.com">Vikram.Sami@perkinswill.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Nick,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">How do you group multiple spaces in one zone? I always thought you could do only one space per zone. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: gray; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Vikram Sami</span></b><span style="COLOR: gray; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">, LEED AP</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: gray; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Sustainable Design Analyst</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: gray; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">1382 Peachtree St. NE, Atlanta, GA 30309</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: gray; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">t: 404-443-7462 f: </span><span style="COLOR: gray; FONT-SIZE: 9pt" lang="ES">404.892.5823 </span><span style="COLOR: gray; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> e: <a href="mailto:vikram.sami@perkinswill.com" target="_blank">vikram.sami@perkinswill.com</a> </span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><a href="http://www.perkinswill.com/" target="_blank"><span style="COLOR: gray; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none">www.perkinswill.com</span></a></span><span style="COLOR: gray; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 3pt" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: gray; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Perkins+Will.</span></b><span style="COLOR: gray; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> </span><span style="COLOR: #add425; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Ideas + buildings that honor the broader goals of society</span><span style="COLOR: green; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nick Caton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2010 2:00 PM
<div class="im"><br><b>To:</b> Peter Hillermann; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br></div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors</span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Hey Peter,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">If by “stack” you mean place one space geometrically over another, the answer is yes. If you mean to ask whether zones can group spaces in different elevations, the answer is also yes. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">However, I would like to hammer out your wording again to be sure we’re on the same page! I think you meant to ask “Can you stack a space in a shell?” Spaces are normally “inside” shells in a geometrical sense, as they are generally within the shell footprint/boundaries.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Zones, in contrast, have nothing to do with geometries – they are simply groupings of spaces with some extra HVAC/airflow properties tacked on. Those spaces could be all over the place – at different elevations, within different shells… pretty much any combination from my experience.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Best of luck! If you are getting tripped up, remember a picture is worth a thousand questions (?)…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><br>~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">PS to all: The SD/DD Wizards are, in my mind, kinda misleading with regard to helping new users understand the distinction between “space” & “zone.” Some work in detailed mode will eventually lead you to understand, but the Wizard screens inconsistently interchange the terms and may cause others confusion in the long run… See my description below for a simple breakdown if you are cutting your teeth on eQuest ;).</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><img border="0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" src="cid:image006.jpg@01CB114B.99ACA900" width="119" height="37"></span><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #cc9900; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', 'serif'; COLOR: #cc9900; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><a title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" href="http://www.smithboucher.com/" target="_blank"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></u><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Peter Hillermann [mailto:<a href="mailto:peterh@westallarchitects.com" target="_blank">peterh@westallarchitects.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2010 12:40 PM<br><b>To:</b> Nick Caton; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Nick,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Thanks again. Can you stack a space in a zone?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="DE">PETER HILLERMANN</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Gothic Demi'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt" lang="DE"><a href="mailto:peterh@westallarchitects.com" target="_blank">peterh@westallarchitects.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: 75%" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 75%; FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Md'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="DE">westall</span></b><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 75%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', 'serif'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: 75%; MARGIN-LEFT: 4pt" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 75%; FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Md'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">architects</span></b><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 75%; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">3404 pierce drive</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">chamblee, georgia 30341</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt">o 770.458.4113</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt">f 770.458.5352</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt">c 678.898.2936</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Gothic Demi'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><a href="http://westallarchitects.com/" target="_blank">westallarchitects.com</a></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', 'serif'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Agency FB'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Nick Caton [mailto:<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2010 12:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Peter Hillermann; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors</span></p></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Peter, I think you might be leading yourself into some unnecessary confusion with your word choices…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">eQuest has 3 distinct entities:</span></p>
<p><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><span>-<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><u><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Shells</span></u><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> are simply groups of spaces</span></p>
<p><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><span>-<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><u><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Spaces</span></u><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> are geometrical volumes, which may or may not have floors, walls, ceilings, windows, etc. tied to them. Internal loads / daylighting / occupancies are attributed to spaces. </span></p>
<p><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><span>-<span style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><u><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Zones</span></u><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> are simple entities that include one or more spaces, with additional HVAC attributes like thermostat and airflow specifics. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">You’re using “floors” to interchangeable discuss all the above, it seems. For clarity when discussing eQuest, “floors” are merely the constructions we walk on, normally one attribute of a “space.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">All that said, it’s entirely possible to model a “box within a box,” as you’re describing. You are limited in the wizards (by their nature) with regard to defining zones/footprints… the best approach depends on the nature of the space footprints you want to model. If it’s very simply two stacked cubes enclosed within a larger cube, I’d personally model one shell, with one space carved out of the middle. Then I’d use the detailed mode to shrink that space volume and partition/ceiling dimensions to match the first floor office, then copy the entire space and its componenents for the second floor. I’d adjust the largest cube’s volume (it’s a space property) to correct the conditioned volume, and be sure all partitions are correctly associating the three spaces together… With all spaces sorted out, ensure your three spaces are correctly grouped with regard to “zones,” for association with your HVAC system(s).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Clear as mud =)?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e">~Nick</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><img border="0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" src="cid:image006.jpg@01CB114B.99ACA900" width="119" height="37"></span><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #cc9900; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', 'serif'; COLOR: #cc9900; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><a title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" href="http://www.smithboucher.com/" target="_blank"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span></u><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Hillermann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2010 10:56 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Understanding Floors</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">To All,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I just want to make sure I understand the properties behind floors. If you have a square building volume with a smaller square inside it that has 2 levels. EG:- an atrium as main space with 2 levels that are offices. There will be a total of 3 floors in your model. Atrium floor, first floor office and second floor office. Each of these will have a designated floor to floor height. You cannot put one zone inside another on the same floor.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is this correct?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="DE">PETER HILLERMANN</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Gothic Demi'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt" lang="DE"><a href="mailto:peterh@westallarchitects.com" target="_blank">peterh@westallarchitects.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: 75%" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 75%; FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Md'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="DE">westall</span></b><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 75%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', 'serif'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="DE"></span></p>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: 75%; MARGIN-LEFT: 4pt" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 75%; FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Md'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">architects</span></b><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 75%; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">3404 pierce drive</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">chamblee, georgia 30341</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt">o 770.458.4113</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt">f 770.458.5352</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt">c 678.898.2936</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'ITC Avant Garde Gothic Demi'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><a href="http://westallarchitects.com/" target="_blank">westallarchitects.com</a></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', 'serif'; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" alt="e-signature" src="cid:image007.jpg@01CB114B.99ACA900" width="160" height="87"><img border="0" alt="USGBC-Logo" src="cid:image008.gif@01CB114B.99ACA900" width="92" height="90"></p>
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