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perhaps the question is "are you referring to a zone or a zone group?"<br>
<br>
in the ddwizard you can specify multiple zones into a zone group. so
if every space, i.e. every room, is it's own zone, then you could add
multiple spaces to a zone group. otherwise you're just making a
thermal zone composed of multiple spaces. as far as i know. <br>
<br>
On 6/21/10 11:35 AM, Pasha Korber-Gonzalez wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTilrXrBx7v1nEInQBdsT6ULmBKwnMcx09d2pxok4@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>I'm with Vik- I thought it was only one space to one zone, but
if someone has a new way of things, please share...</div>
<div> </div>
<div>pkg<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Sami,
Vikram <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Vikram.Sami@perkinswill.com">Vikram.Sami@perkinswill.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"
class="gmail_quote">
<div vlink="purple" link="blue" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Nick,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">How do
you group multiple spaces in one zone? I always thought you could do
only one space per zone. </span></p>
<div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img
src="cid:part1.03070207.03050906@gmail.com" height="259" width="934"></span><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: gray; font-size: 9pt;">Vikram
Sami</span></b><span style="color: gray; font-size: 9pt;">, LEED AP</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: gray; font-size: 9pt;">Sustainable
Design Analyst</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: gray; font-size: 9pt;">1382
Peachtree St. NE, Atlanta, GA 30309</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: gray; font-size: 9pt;">t:
404-443-7462 f: </span><span style="color: gray; font-size: 9pt;"
lang="ES">404.892.5823 </span><span
style="color: gray; font-size: 9pt;"> e: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vikram.sami@perkinswill.com" target="_blank">vikram.sami@perkinswill.com</a>
</span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.perkinswill.com/"
target="_blank"><span
style="color: gray; font-size: 9pt; text-decoration: none;">www.perkinswill.com</span></a></span><span
style="color: gray; font-size: 9pt;"></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 3pt;" class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="color: gray; font-size: 9pt;">Perkins+Will.</span></b><span
style="color: gray; font-size: 9pt;"> </span><span
style="color: rgb(173, 212, 37); font-size: 9pt;">Ideas + buildings
that honor the broader goals of society</span><span
style="color: green; font-size: 9pt;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Nick Caton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2010 2:00 PM
<div class="im"><br>
<b>To:</b> Peter Hillermann; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
</div>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors</span> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hey
Peter,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If by
“stack” you mean place one space geometrically over another, the answer
is yes. If you mean to ask whether zones can group spaces in different
elevations, the answer is also yes. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">However,
I would like to hammer out your wording again to be sure we’re on the
same page! I think you meant to ask “Can you stack a space in a
shell?” Spaces are normally “inside” shells in a geometrical sense, as
they are generally within the shell footprint/boundaries.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Zones,
in contrast, have nothing to do with geometries – they are simply
groupings of spaces with some extra HVAC/airflow properties tacked on.
Those spaces could be all over the place – at different elevations,
within different shells… pretty much any combination from my experience.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Best of
luck! If you are getting tripped up, remember a picture is worth a
thousand questions (?)…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">PS to
all: The SD/DD Wizards are, in my mind, kinda misleading with regard
to helping new users understand the distinction between “space” &
“zone.” Some work in detailed mode will eventually lead you to
understand, but the Wizard screens inconsistently interchange the terms
and may cause others confusion in the long run… See my description
below for a simple breakdown if you are cutting your teeth on eQuest ;).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"
src="cid:part2.01060201.01070000@gmail.com" border="0" height="37"
width="119"></span><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK
CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span
style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 12pt;"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(204, 153, 0); font-size: 7.5pt;">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span
style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color: rgb(204, 153, 0); font-size: 7.5pt;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 10pt;">25501 west valley
parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 10pt;">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 10pt;">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 10pt;">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 10pt;">Check out our new
web-site @ </span></i><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"
href="http://www.smithboucher.com/" target="_blank"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style="color: blue; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></u><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> Peter Hillermann [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:peterh@westallarchitects.com"
target="_blank">peterh@westallarchitects.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2010 12:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Nick,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Thanks again.
Can you stack a space in a zone?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 10pt;"
lang="DE">PETER HILLERMANN</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 10pt;"
lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Gothic Demi'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 8pt;"
lang="DE"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:peterh@westallarchitects.com" target="_blank">peterh@westallarchitects.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 10pt;"
lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p style="line-height: 75%;" class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="line-height: 75%; font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Md'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 14pt;"
lang="DE">westall</span></b><span
style="line-height: 75%; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 14pt;"
lang="DE"></span></p>
<p style="line-height: 75%; margin-left: 4pt;" class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="line-height: 75%; font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Md'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 14pt;">architects</span></b><span
style="line-height: 75%; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 14pt;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 10pt;">3404
pierce drive</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 10pt;">chamblee,
georgia 30341</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 8pt;">o
770.458.4113</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 8pt;">f
770.458.5352</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 8pt;">c
678.898.2936</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Gothic Demi'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 8pt;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://westallarchitects.com/"
target="_blank">westallarchitects.com</a></span><span
style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 12pt;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'Agency FB'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> Nick Caton [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2010 12:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Peter Hillermann; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Understanding Floors</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Peter,
I think you might be leading yourself into some unnecessary confusion
with your word choices…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">eQuest
has 3 distinct entities:</span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span>-<span
style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">
</span></span></span><u><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Shells</span></u><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> are simply groups of spaces</span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span>-<span
style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">
</span></span></span><u><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Spaces</span></u><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> are geometrical volumes, which may
or may not have floors, walls, ceilings, windows, etc. tied to them.
Internal loads / daylighting / occupancies are attributed to spaces. </span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span>-<span
style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">
</span></span></span><u><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Zones</span></u><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> are simple entities that include one
or more spaces, with additional HVAC attributes like thermostat and
airflow specifics. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You’re
using “floors” to interchangeable discuss all the above, it seems. For
clarity when discussing eQuest, “floors” are merely the constructions
we walk on, normally one attribute of a “space.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">All
that said, it’s entirely possible to model a “box within a box,” as
you’re describing. You are limited in the wizards (by their nature)
with regard to defining zones/footprints… the best approach depends on
the nature of the space footprints you want to model. If it’s very
simply two stacked cubes enclosed within a larger cube, I’d personally
model one shell, with one space carved out of the middle. Then I’d use
the detailed mode to shrink that space volume and partition/ceiling
dimensions to match the first floor office, then copy the entire space
and its componenents for the second floor. I’d adjust the largest
cube’s volume (it’s a space property) to correct the conditioned
volume, and be sure all partitions are correctly associating the three
spaces together… With all spaces sorted out, ensure your three spaces
are correctly grouped with regard to “zones,” for association with your
HVAC system(s).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Clear
as mud =)?</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">~Nick</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"
src="cid:part2.01060201.01070000@gmail.com" border="0" height="37"
width="119"></span><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK
CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span
style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 12pt;"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(204, 153, 0); font-size: 7.5pt;">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span
style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; color: rgb(204, 153, 0); font-size: 7.5pt;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 10pt;">25501 west valley
parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 10pt;">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 10pt;">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 10pt;">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 10pt;">Check out our new
web-site @ </span></i><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"
href="http://www.smithboucher.com/" target="_blank"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style="color: blue; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></u><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Peter Hillermann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 21, 2010 10:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Understanding Floors</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">To All,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I just want to make sure I understand the
properties behind floors. If you have a square building volume with a
smaller square inside it that has 2 levels. EG:- an atrium as main
space with 2 levels that are offices. There will be a total of 3 floors
in your model. Atrium floor, first floor office and second floor
office. Each of these will have a designated floor to floor height. You
cannot put one zone inside another on the same floor.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is this correct?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 10pt;"
lang="DE">PETER HILLERMANN</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 10pt;"
lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Gothic Demi'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 8pt;"
lang="DE"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:peterh@westallarchitects.com" target="_blank">peterh@westallarchitects.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 10pt;"
lang="DE"> </span></p>
<p style="line-height: 75%;" class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="line-height: 75%; font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Md'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 14pt;"
lang="DE">westall</span></b><span
style="line-height: 75%; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 14pt;"
lang="DE"></span></p>
<p style="line-height: 75%; margin-left: 4pt;" class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="line-height: 75%; font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Md'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 14pt;">architects</span></b><span
style="line-height: 75%; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 14pt;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 10pt;">3404
pierce drive</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 10pt;">chamblee,
georgia 30341</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 8pt;">o
770.458.4113</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'ITC Avant Garde Std Bk'; letter-spacing: 1pt; font-size: 8pt;">f
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