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<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> My last effort with a
complex geometry turned out pretty good</font>. You need to do some
work before you get going in eQuest. I only had 3 floors to do so
working off 3 floor plans was enough to keep track of the vertices's.
You might consider a 3D wire frame in cad is things are real complex
and run both programs at the same time with the cad for reference as
you go. I added extra zones to my HVAC zones which lined up with
exterior walls in the floor above. This makes everything removable
later, ie the interior roofs which eQuest creates in the model. For
angled walls I would put them in square lined up at the bottom floor,
then tilt them over later and shorten the roof plane to intersect.
Voids are a little more tricky, I also created extra zones to line up
with the voids. One trick here is to enter the void zone last. Put
all the other zones around it first. This way all the walls are
attached to the other zones. The reason is you don't want any orphan
walls when you delete the void. You basically delete down to the
floor, exposing the interior roof on the floor below. I had planned to
leave the concrete floor on top of the roof, a minor thermo
difference. eQuest I thought does not allow you to delete floor
areas. Once all the surfaces are gone you can delete the zone and the
floor area seems to go, the roof will show in the 3D view. Then change
all the interior walls to exterior on the zones around the void. Add
an exterior wall in the same spot as the interior wall and delete the
interior wall. Use the location to place the exterior wall, look at
the interior wall, get the say, "V2 of the space polygon", select that
in the exterior wall and eQuest does all the geometry, pick you
exterior wall type and you are done, delete the interior wall.<br>
Back to the trick. I learned the hard way here. One of my void
zones ended up with an orphan wall, ie the wall was attached to the
zone I wanted to delete not the zone which was to have the new exterior
wall. The surface of one zone is not called the same thing on the
adjacent zone. Also the geometry control point is different on every
zone. Every zone <u>has to be</u> a closed surface. You can't leave
the orphan wall even though it is correct as far as location, type
etc. It looked perfect in 3D. To eQuest I had 2 zones with holes in
them and it wouldn't run. It took a lot of playing to make an exterior
wall in the other zone and get it in the right place. Once you get the
plane surface orientation right, you "just" adjust X,Y to pull it into
place. Make sure the azimuth is correct, the exterior of the wall has
to face the outside. "Just" was over an hour. Because there is no
wall there originally I don't think eQuest has a surface polygon set up
in the space to pick, that was my first try, just started picking
polygons looking for the correct one. It didn't seem to exist. If the
wall is highlighted in the component tree, you are in 3D, just click
your left mouse button on the 3D area and your wall will show up in
red. Having your vertices's on paper really helps here because you
have to be exact in the placement. To add to the complexity,
everything is referenced off the control point, you have to have it's
location too. Long story short, I finally copied the opposite wall,
flipped the azimuth 180 degrees and pulled it into place. Once you
change the azimuth everything works backwards. It was in the wee hours
of the morning, I was not too sharp by then. This is an idealized
version from foggy memory.<br>
I added 2 screen shots, 2D, showing the void as eQuest shows it
after I deleted the zone, and 3D, showing the roof and my fun wall. I
did all the roofs as flat, there are actually 3 different cottage
roofs, 2 which intersect, and about another 40% flat roof. Thermo wise
the flat roof should be conservative, my model will have a little more
heating and cooling than required but the occupants will be happy. A
little more is better than not enough. This building operates 24/7,
some fairly dense occupations in some of the zones, the heating and
cooling for the outside air dwarfs the roof loads. Put the zones back
together for the HVAC, interior walls for geometry can be made air
walls. Sounds simple, lol. Test each shell after you make it to make
sure the simulation will run, save a copy and do the next shell. You
can delete the covered roofs once you get the next shell on. The first
major step is to get the geometry right, default everything else. This
way you can keep going back into the building creation wizard without
losing any information or any time. You have to do this every time so
you can check the 3D view and your wall placements. Ignore the warning
eQuest gives you because you haven't put in anything to lose. Once
page 2 of 25 is good, save another copy and work on pages 3 to 25.
Before you do the windows, save a working copy. You can lose a lot of
time and information in this area if you have to go back. Good luck.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
<br>
On 16/06/2010 02:17 AM, John Aulbach wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:963158.23358.qm@web52802.mail.re2.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
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<div>Is this one of these 30th century looking skyscrapers being
built in Shanghai, China? I saw a few renderings and physical models at
the San francisco airport this week. I have NO idea how to model them..<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<div
style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2">
<hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
Ju-Yeon Julie Shin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:juyeon519@hotmail.com"><juyeon519@hotmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com">jra_sac@yahoo.com</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tue, June 15,
2010 7:52:54 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE:
[Equest-users] SD or DD? (John, Nick, and Aaron)<br>
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Thank you John, Nick, and Aaron for your help.<br>
<br>
I have read Bruce's posts on complex geometries.<br>
<br>
My building has very complex buildilng geometries with different
footprints for each floor.<br>
<br>
The building has void spaces on few floors and the facades are sloped.
That is why it has different building footprints.<br>
<br>
I am starting from the DD wizard as all you suggested to me. BUT I am
worried whether these complex geometries give me a nearly accurate
result.<br>
<br>
Any comments on it?<br>
<br>
Thank you again.<br>
<br>
Jy-Yeon Julie Shin<br>
<br>
<hr id="stopSpelling">
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:12:07 -0700<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com">jra_sac@yahoo.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] SD or DD?<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:juyeon519@hotmail.com">juyeon519@hotmail.com</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<br>
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<div>Nick (and others):</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thinking it through, 99% of SD stuff is in DD Wizard. DD just
allows you to make different floor (and/or building) footprints.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So I suppose you could start with a DD Wizard and leave it a
single footprint, filling in the blanks with contiguous stuff, then
making the different floor (or building) shells from there.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Wish I had more time to speak. 7 models await my shaky hand.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>John<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<div
style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2">
<hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
Nick Caton <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com"><ncaton@smithboucher.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> John Aulbach
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com"><jra_sac@yahoo.com></a>; Ju-Yeon Julie Shin
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:juyeon519@hotmail.com"><juyeon519@hotmail.com></a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tue, June 15,
2010 12:38:04 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE:
[Equest-users] SD or DD?<br>
</font><br>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">John
(or anyone else),</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">If
you have the time, would you mind explaining/suggesting the
efficiencies that might come from starting with SD, then converting to
the DD wizards? Every project I’ve ever performed has been DD from the
get-go, and when I have explored SD it appears to my untrained eye to
be a kind of linear, simplified version of the DD wizards….</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">To
stick my neck out a bit – I fairly regularly have projects where we
start modeling at a stage when space zoning assignments and system
arrangements are quite fluid – it can be handy to define every space in
the wizard zone maps to allow for full flexibility later on, and this
often results in building a shell-per-floor, with each floor receiving
a unique zonal space layout.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">I
wouldn’t dream of trying this approach on a high-rise building, but
with projects of up to 3-4 stories, things generally seem manageable.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">To
Ju-Yeon’s situation (do understand I am one of the less-experienced
contributors here): </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">I
would emphasize using as few footprints for your 9-story building as is
acceptable. I would start in the DD wizards, creating a shell for each
block of floors using the same footprint. I’ve read that you can group
your hi-rise shells in a way that simplifies things thermally without
losing accuracy. </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">For
example, if you have three typical floor plans, and they were ordered
as such: (ground) A,B,A,B,C,C,B,B,B (roof) - I would suggest building
3 shells as follows: [A,A],[C,C],[B,B,B,B,B]. In this way, you at
most need to define only three sets of everything to start, and you’re
simultaneously ensuring the lowermost and highest floors, which receive
significantly different envelope loads, have the correct floor plan
tied to them. Remember the systems you define can ultimately be tied
to any combination of zones across different shells.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"><img
moz-do-not-send="true" id="ecxPicture_x0020_1"
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(45, 77, 94); font-size: 11pt;">NICK
CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><i><span
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out our new web-site @ </span></i><span
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rel="nofollow"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
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</div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
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<div>
<div
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John
Aulbach<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ju-Yeon Julie Shin; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] SD or DD?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal">Ju-Yeon:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal">You need to be in the DD Wizard to create
different floor footprints. The SD Wizard only allows a single
footprint.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal">I would start in the SD Wizard, getting all
of your window/wall roof constructions, general hours of operation, and
system type (s). Not knowingwhat your zones will look like, I would
set the zoning pattern to one zone per floor (for now).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal">Once this is set up, then change to DD Wizard
to start creating your unique floors. Then you can uniquely set put
your zones on a floor by floor basis.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal">Do you mean EVERY floor footprint is
different from the others? This is a very unusual building.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">John R.
Aulbach, PE, CEM</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Senior
Energy Engineer</span></p>
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</span></b><b><span
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style="font-variant: small-caps; font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: navy;"></span></b></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">1990 E.
Grand Avenue, El Segundo, CA 90245<br>
W: 888-826-1216, X254| D: 310-765-7295 | F: 310-817-2745</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: purple;">www.ptrenergy.com</span></a><span
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><br>
</p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;" class="ecxMsoNormal" align="center"><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">
<hr align="center" size="1" width="100%"></span></div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-family: 'sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;"> Ju-Yeon Julie
Shin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:juyeon519@hotmail.com"><juyeon519@hotmail.com></a><br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tue, June 15, 2010 1:13:13 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] SD or DD?<br>
</span><br>
Hello everyone I am new to eQUEST and have a question about what to use.<br>
<br>
The building I am working on has 9 storeys and each single floor
footprint is different.<br>
<br>
The first three floors are part of a podium building and the rest is
office.<br>
<br>
In order to create different footprints and finish all the rest of the
eQUEST inputs,<br>
<br>
1) do I have to build a first floor on the SD wizard and finish all
40ish pages, AND THEN go to the DD wizard <br>
<br>
creating new shells for the rest and new HVAC systems, or<br>
<br>
2) do I just go the the SD wizard from the beginning to create all
different building footprints?<br>
<br>
Thank you for your help:) </p>
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