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<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I have been there more times
than I like to admit. I think you may have a geometry problem. Shells
above each other normally cause more problems than side by side. I
would think you are looking for a geometry conflict, ie shells
intersecting, or bad vertices's.</font> A 3D view should confirm if
you have an intersection problem horizontally. Actually eQuest doesn't
care if shells are spread out improperly, just not intersecting. Make
a copy and go back into the building creation wizard, actions tab,
building creation tab. This could dump a lot of information you have
input, like custom windows and locations, the reason I never input this
stuff right away or much else. You will be in the Project Navigator.
Get to page 2 of 25. Also, print a copy of your building footprint
from your cad file in the cad program. Get into the custom foot print
and start checking and itemizing major vertices's on the footprint. Go
to the zones and check as well. One other thing to check is on screen
1 of 25, the box, "specify exact site coordinates" must be checked and
your adjacent and vertical shells must be exactly in the correct spot.
I normally start with 0,0,0. Everything has to be correct to 2 decimal
places or eQuest will not run. If a vertex is wrong you can double
click on the incorrect coordinate and eQuest will allow you to edit
it. If you have vertical shells things have to line up vertically
too. In the custom building footprint screen you will see a tab,
little book with a P on the cover in the top left corner. Click on
that and make sure your cad units correspond with the eQuest units and
the cad origin is the same as in eQuest (0,0). If that is all good
then you are "just" checking, looking for a vertex error. On a simple
model maybe 500 points, lol. Not funny when you have this problem
though, even worse when you have thousands of points. Snap in this
screen is unreliable. NEVER use snap to grid, always have this turned
off. Snap to cad first, snap to polygon second. I always do this
screen with a cad printout with vertices's marked on it and check as I
go. You would be amazed how often your snap point is incorrect. There
is no such thing as close enough in this screen. I will say it once
more, <u>if any point is out by .01 your model is toast!</u> Any gap
or overlap in any direction in the geometry will fry eQuest. You have
to watch your Z coordinate as well going vertically. Hence Carol(e)'s
anal remark. Screens 1 and 2 are the most important screens to your
sanity and your model running! I ignore everything else in eQuest, ie
all defaults apply, until the model will run after these 2 screens.
Any other work is probably going to be wasted. Do one shell at a time,
make sure it runs and so on. Then you can proceed to the Air System
Types. Leave custom windows to the VERY last, this is a time trap.
You will have to go back to the navigator a few times, maybe many
times, so there is no point inputing anything you will lose. Good luck.<br>
Bruce<br>
<br>
On 14/06/2010 09:52 PM, Dahlstrom, Aaron wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:22CE8791E7DE554FB00676D7248C6B55253E261B@AKFMAILPA.AKF-ENG.COM"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">Bruce
– read
your whole response, since I’m still here at 10p EDT working on the
same model.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">I’ve
rebuilt
it from scratch with a whole lot more archive versions along the way.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">Thanks
for
the geometry / reinitialization tip – I’ll be sure to run it earlier
next time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">I
definitely
have roofs that are oddly shaped due to multiple adjacent shells.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">I’ll
keep an
eye on that too.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">Aaron
Dahlstrom , PE, LEED® AP</span></b><span style="color: windowtext;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><b><span
style="font-family: "AvantGarde Bk BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);">In
P</span></b><b><span
style="font-family: "AvantGarde Bk BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(97, 148, 40);">o</span></b><b><span
style="font-family: "AvantGarde Bk BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);">sse</span></b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">
– </span><span
style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">A
subsidiary of</span><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">
</span><b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">AKF</span></b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">|
1500 Walnut Street, Suite 1414, Philadelphia, PA 19102 </span><span
style="color: windowtext;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">d:
215-282-6753| m: 267-507-5470| In Posse: 215-282-6800| AKF:
215-735-7290</span><span style="color: windowtext;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">e:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ADahlstrom@in-posse.com">ADahlstrom@in-posse.com</a> | in
posse web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.in-posse.com/">www.in-posse.com</a>
| akf web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.akfgroup.com/">www.akfgroup.com</a></span><span
style="color: windowtext;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;"> </span><span
style="color: windowtext;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;"> </span><span
style="color: windowtext;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: gray;"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
Bruce Easterbrook
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca">mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 14, 2010 9:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dahlstrom, Aaron<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] dd wizard - invalid argument<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> You did have an error in your electric
rate but obviously if it is not now involved it probably is not the
main
problem. That leaves the roof. If you have several custom floors
when you create them in the DD wizard they will all have roofs. If
they
are stacked you will have embedded roofs if you have not gone in and
removed
them which you can't do in the DD wizard. They will only effect floor
to
floor heat transfer and maybe eQuest will give them a solar load I
don't
know. eQuest will run with them if they are technically
(geometrically)
correct. The problem is you can't see them in the 3D view if they are
covered by other floors and easy visual check to see if they are
geometrically
correct is not possible. That will cause eQuest to crash. You may
be able to cheat a little. eQuest will show external surfaces in a red
outline in the 3D view. If this is may be your problem go to the
building
shell tab to one of the floors and highlight the roof in tree pane.
Switch to your 3D view and hold your control key and with your left
mouse held
down rotate the 3D model. It will switch to wire frame and the roof
surface will be highlighted in red. I can't remember how to turn on
the
wire frame view but that is possible to do as well. Maybe someone
monitoring this will refresh my memory. I think you have a roof
geometry
problem and geometry problems are a pain in the ass.<br>
The other thing I have noticed and I'm not sure quite why
but if there was an error and you have corrected it, the program may
have not
actually accommodated the change yet. My guess is, the program runs in
a
linear fashion start to finish. A change will probably get added to
the
end of the program as a addition or change. When the program is run
again
it is using the original file and then the additions, but the error is
still
there and the program hits it first and crashes. I have found when
doing
major changes it is best just to save the file, close it and re-open
it.
eQuest will then reorder the file and it probably won't crash if you
did
correct the error. Run a simulation and you will get much better error
messages as to what the problem is. I have adjusted my trouble
shooting
technique to this method in the last few weeks and have seen many
errors
disappear once the file is reinitialized. It has saved many hours of
banging my head on the wall.<br>
This is not specifically for you Aaron, just a general
observation (tangent). I have noticed a few guides in the last week or
so
to help new comers but no one has mentioned reinitializing the
project.
It may be an obscure point but I think it saved me about 30% of my
hours on my
latest project. One of the biggest things with eQuest is to get it
running and keep it running as you build your model. Start simple,
initially,
heat transfer surfaces are important, zones are important, windows are
not,
schedules are not, utilities are not, constructions are not, layers are
not,
HVAC systems and their zones are not. Geometry is CRITICAL. eQuest
will choke with a vertex error of .01, Carol(e) is "anal on this
point", lol, but she knows what she is talking about. She and Pasha
both agree and no doubt will add wisdom if they have any pointers to
add.
I should add a plug for Nick as well, another heavy hauler on this site
with
major experience beyond his years. Start simple, get the box(es), and
surfaces correct. Zones initially can be artificial with the future
HVAC
system in mind <u>but also</u> to assist with the geometry.
Specifically,
in dealing with other floors and roofs. An un-named eQuest instructor
will attest to this, it is easier to manipulate your zoning to assist
in your
geometry problems and put them together later to accommodate your HVAC
model
than create the surfaces on the fly in detailed edit. Especially with
40
students watching! eQuest can be humbling even for experts. NEVER
get 30 hours in without testing and running it many times on the path.
Lots of saves, build your files as well as the model. The simulation
at
this point is for confirmation your model is running and for error
messages. A tiny error in geometry will crash the file. There is no
point doing anything but the bare minimum until the geometry is
correct.
It will crash your project with minimal error messages, maybe none,
eQuest will
just freeze. Once the geometry is correct keep adding to the
complexity
one step at a time, test and confirm, fix errors, save, then the next
step. I know it sounds plodding, it is. Methodical is a much
classier word. Efficient is more to the point. I contract so when
everything blows up I don't get paid. I eat the hours for my
mistakes. In the end it is all similar, whether it is the boss
pounding
on the door or the client, the deadline has arrived, eQuest is not
cooperating
and you are ready to toss the computer out the window, your name is
mud.
Plodding is smart.<br>
Sorry for the digression Aaron, the Voodoo thread was
interesting and I didn't get to add my 2 cents worth. I was in a swamp
with alligators at the time. On the other hand I did learn a lesson
about
reinitialization. You learn by doing and making mistakes. <br>
Bruce<br>
<br>
On 14/06/2010 06:43 PM, Dahlstrom, Aaron wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">Bruce
– </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">The
error
shows up when I attempt to “finish” the DD wizard.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">When
I look
through the PD2 file and the INP file in Notepad, neither have any
explicit
errors in them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">The
PD2 file
does have -</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">RoofZoneErrorCode = 4</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">TOUPeriodErrSeas1 = " "</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">I
can get <b><i>into
</i></b>the wizard just fine, and all the data appears correct. The
problem is
that when I “finish” the program crashes.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">I
just experimented
with removing the TOU electric rate, and again, when I hit “finish” it
crashes
eQUEST with the error noted below.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">Thanks
for
trying!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">Any
other
suggestions?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">Aaron
Dahlstrom
, PE, LEED® AP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><b><span
style="font-family: "AvantGarde Bk BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);">In
P</span></b><b><span
style="font-family: "AvantGarde Bk BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(97, 148, 40);">o</span></b><b><span
style="font-family: "AvantGarde Bk BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);">sse</span></b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">
– </span><span
style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">A
subsidiary of</span><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">
</span><b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">AKF</span></b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">|
1500 Walnut Street, Suite
1414, Philadelphia, PA 19102 </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">d:
215-282-6753|
m: 267-507-5470| In Posse: 215-282-6800| AKF: 215-735-7290</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">e:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ADahlstrom@in-posse.com">ADahlstrom@in-posse.com</a>
| in posse web: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.in-posse.com/">www.in-posse.com</a> | akf
web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.akfgroup.com/">www.akfgroup.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: gray;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
Bruce Easterbrook [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca">mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 14, 2010 5:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dahlstrom, Aaron<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] dd wizard - invalid argument</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It depends where you are in the process. If you
are
getting a detailed sim report it should open to the errors part of the
report. If you aren't that far open the project BDL or INP files with
notepad. They will list warnings and errors as they are processed.
The error will be at the end, there may be contributing errors before.
All
it really does is tell you where it kicked out, but it does provide
clues. When you run your simulation make sure the boxes are checked so
it
will run through errors and warnings. You get better hints this way.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
<br>
On 14/06/2010 04:56 PM, Dahlstrom, Aaron wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Folks:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I have gotten the
following
error several times on the same project.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I have rebuilt
the file from
scratch already once, and I’m wondering if there is another way to fix
this
error.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Any idea if there
are reports
or INIs that I can view / modify to find out where exactly this
“invalid
argument” is located?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><img
id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:part1.02040209.03020604@bellnet.ca"
border="0" height="159" width="313"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Thanks!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">Aaron
Dahlstrom
, PE, LEED® AP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><b><span
style="font-family: "AvantGarde Bk BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);">In
P</span></b><b><span
style="font-family: "AvantGarde Bk BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(97, 148, 40);">o</span></b><b><span
style="font-family: "AvantGarde Bk BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);">sse</span></b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">
– </span><span
style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">A
subsidiary of</span><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">
</span><b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">AKF</span></b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">|
1500 Walnut Street, Suite
1414, Philadelphia, PA 19102 </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 150%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">d:
215-282-6753|
m: 267-507-5470| In Posse: 215-282-6800| AKF: 215-735-7290</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;">e:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ADahlstrom@in-posse.com">ADahlstrom@in-posse.com</a>
| in posse web: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.in-posse.com/">www.in-posse.com</a> | akf
web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.akfgroup.com/">www.akfgroup.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: gray;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: gray;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";"><br
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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