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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Robert,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In following this discussion, several issues come to mind:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>First, you are trying to model the "baseline HVAC system is
a constant volume single zone AHU w/ no reheat" using a VAV system in
eQuest for a LEED project. This setup, even with your modifications, will be
flagged by the reviewer as inappropriate. I am assuming that without the DES,
the baseline system should have been a system #3. With the changes to the
baseline required by the DES methodology, the single zone systems should be
modeled as individual fan-coil units, not VAV. (Without DES, system #3 should
always be modeled as individual PSZs in eQuest.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Second, with the excessive unmet load hours in a VAV unit, you
most likely have not activated the AHU heating coil. This is done on the
system level heating tab by entering a "Hot deck max leaving temp".
Doing a right-click on that data entry space gives valuable help on how and when
to activate and when not to. In eQuest, VAV systems that have no "Hot
deck max leaving temp" or reheat have no source of heating to supply to spaces
served by that VAV unit.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Also, a Baseline building for a LEED submission should not have
baseboards unless they serve a semi-heated space (in which case they must be
modeled identically in both buildings).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Good luck!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#76923C'>Sheila Sagerer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#76923C'>Energy
Engineer, EIT, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#76923C'>Energy
Opportunities, Inc, a 7group company<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#76923C'>Phone:
717-880-9069<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#76923C'>www.sevengroup.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert
Des Rosiers<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 11, 2010 1:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Dakota Kelley'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Excessive Unmet Heating Load Hourswithan
Auto-Sized HVAC System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dakota:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There is definitely diversity in the zones and I have used the
glass library for all window types. Also, I agree that not having reheat
is inappropriate for this building use due to the programmatic and occupancy
diversity within each zone (there are two AHU's feeding multiple zones in the
proposed design and I have maintained those thermal blocks per ASHRAE appendix
G). Unfortunately the baseline system I have described is what is
required per the "Required Treatment of District Thermal Energy"
document for LEED compliance. Assuming the system is functioning
correctly (or as best as possible considering the design) and the heating loads
are not met would LEED allow the addition of zone level baseboards for purposes
of the Optimized Energy credit?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Note: I have included the suggestions listed below (except for
local baseboard heating) and the improvement in unmet hours is marginal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks -<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Dakota Kelley [mailto:dakotak@teliospc.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 11, 2010 9:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> desrosiers@studioma.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Excessive Unmet Heating Load Hours withan
Auto-Sized HVAC System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Robert,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>50,000 hours is much more than I would anticipate for a capacity
issue. You are essentially describing a hydronic VAVT system, which is
begging for unmet heating hours if there is a lot of diversity in the zones’
demands and no reheat capabilities. My experience has been that eQUEST
over-sizes hot water systems, and this is exacerbated if the “simple” method is
used to define the windows. It can be as much as 250%-300%.
That many hours sounds like the system is not functioning as intended – almost
as if the heating loop is not assigned to the zones/system, or something
similar. Or, not having reheat could be inappropriate for the building
use or climate. Regardless, adding zone reheat as Bruce and Pasha
indicated should make a huge difference.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:27.0pt'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>DAKOTA
KELLEY </span><o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:27.0pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>Project
Designer | Energy Analyst<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>
</span><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>Office:
214.744.6199
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>
Cell: 214.280.3825<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>
Fax: 214.744.0770</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.teliospc.com/"><span style='font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>http://www.teliospc.com </span></a><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>
3535 Travis St. Suite 115<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:dakotak@teliospc.com"><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>dakotak@teliospc.com</span></a><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>
</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>Dallas,
TX 75204</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif"'>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif";
color:#3333FF'>| MEP ENGINEERING · ENERGY MODELING · LEED CONSULTATION ·
COMMISSIONING |<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:FranklinGothic-BookCnd;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
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color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Bruce Easterbrook
[mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 11, 2010 6:33 AM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Excessive Unmet Heating Load Hours withan
Auto-Sized HVAC System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>In your air side HVAC section go into the zone level and
check that your sizing option is set to "adjust loads". If it
is from loads go to the summary tab and change all your zones. Also
beside that is throttling range, you can try adjusting that upwards say to 4
deg. You can also change your control zone to see it this helps. If
your AHU is off at night you can also adjust it to come on before the
occupancy. You SS-O report will show this if the hours are lumped near
the start up time. Then add more heat as Pasha said.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
<br>
On 10/06/2010 10:55 PM, Pasha Korber-Gonzalez wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>I have found with my own projects that even sometimes when
the HVAC designer has specified a specific capacity for htg water equipment
that sometime in my model file I still have unmet loads for htg. I
suggest at this point specify additional htg capacity by either increasing the
reheat delta-T from say 30F to 50F and/or adding zone level baseboards.
By adding the baseboards you are adding a component of the system that will
supplement the skin losses being experienced by the simulation model.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>by adding baseboards for the additional requrired heat then
you should be able to meet your heating loads.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>hope this helps,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>pasha<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 7:38 PM, Robert Des Rosiers <<a
href="mailto:desrosiers@studioma.com">desrosiers@studioma.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>All:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
have completed an energy model for a baseline scenario from which to compare my
proposed design. The baseline HVAC system is a constant volume single
zone AHU w/ no reheat; the AHU is served by HW and CHW loop from a central
plant. I have set this up in eQuest as a "Variable Air Volume"
system type with the AHU fan control set to "Constant Volume"; my
thought here is that each zone fed by the AHU will control temperature using a
VAV box w/ no local reheat or cooling. Flow and temperature from the AHU
will be delivered based on the coolest or warmest zone it serves.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>All
seems fine with the design flows, ventilation flows and cooling
capacities. My problem is with the heating capacity as I have excessive
unmet heating hours (50,000). I have allowed eQuest to size the heating
capacity of the preheat and heating coil as well as the minimum flow
ratios. <u>Does anyone have any thoughts as to what is causing these
unmet heating load hours? Is the way I have set-up the desired baseline
HVAC system incorrect?</u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Any
guidance is greatly appreciated. Thanks -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Robert Des Rosiers, LEED-AP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='color:#1F497D'>STUDIO MA</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>130 N Central Avenue, No.300 Phoenix, Arizona 85004</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Telephone 602 251 3800</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Fax 602 251 3100</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
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