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You are in trouble shooting mode now, do a save as to get a play file.
Dakota seems right 50,000 hrs is a problem. Add in the baseboards,
they might indicate a few problems zones and give you a clue to the
high hours. Sheila has some good suggestions too. Once you figure out
the problem just go back to the original file and tune it up.<br>
Bruce<br>
<br>
On 11/06/2010 01:03 PM, Robert Des Rosiers wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Dakota:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">There
is definitely diversity in the zones and I have used the
glass library for all window types. Also, I agree that not having
reheat is
inappropriate for this building use due to the programmatic and
occupancy
diversity within each zone (there are two AHU's feeding multiple zones
in the
proposed design and I have maintained those thermal blocks per ASHRAE
appendix
G). Unfortunately the baseline system I have described is what is
required per
the "Required Treatment of District Thermal Energy" document for LEED
compliance. Assuming the system is functioning correctly (or as best
as
possible considering the design) and the heating loads are not met
would LEED
allow the addition of zone level baseboards for purposes of the
Optimized
Energy credit?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Note:
I have included the suggestions listed below (except for
local baseboard heating) and the improvement in unmet hours is marginal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks
-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
Dakota Kelley
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:dakotak@teliospc.com">mailto:dakotak@teliospc.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 11, 2010 9:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:desrosiers@studioma.com">desrosiers@studioma.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Excessive Unmet Heating Load Hours
withan
Auto-Sized HVAC System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Robert,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">50,000
hours is much more than I would anticipate for a capacity
issue. You are essentially describing a hydronic VAVT system, which is
begging for unmet heating hours if there is a lot of diversity in the
zones’
demands and no reheat capabilities. My experience has been that eQUEST
over-sizes hot water systems, and this is exacerbated if the “simple”
method is
used to define the windows. It can be as much as 250%-300%.
That many hours sounds like the system is not functioning as intended –
almost
as if the heating loop is not assigned to the zones/system, or
something
similar. Or, not having reheat could be inappropriate for the building
use or climate. Regardless, adding zone reheat as Bruce and Pasha
indicated should make a huge difference.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; text-indent: 27pt;"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Franklin Gothic Book";">DAKOTA
KELLEY </span><o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; text-indent: 27pt;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Franklin Gothic Book";">Project
Designer |
Energy Analyst<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Franklin Gothic Book";">
</span><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "Franklin Gothic Book";">Office:
214.744.6199
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "Franklin Gothic Book";">
Cell:
214.280.3825<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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Fax:
214.744.0770</span><span
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.teliospc.com/"><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "Franklin Gothic Book";">http://www.teliospc.com
</span></a><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "Franklin Gothic Book";">
3535 Travis St. Suite 115<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dakotak@teliospc.com"><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "Franklin Gothic Book";">dakotak@teliospc.com</span></a><span
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</span><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "Franklin Gothic Book";">Dallas,
TX 75204</span><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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<div
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
Bruce Easterbrook
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca">mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 11, 2010 6:33 AM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Excessive Unmet Heating Load Hours
withan
Auto-Sized HVAC System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In your air side HVAC section go into the zone
level and check
that your sizing option is set to "adjust loads". If it is from
loads go to the summary tab and change all your zones. Also beside
that
is throttling range, you can try adjusting that upwards say to 4 deg.
You
can also change your control zone to see it this helps. If your AHU is
off at night you can also adjust it to come on before the occupancy.
You
SS-O report will show this if the hours are lumped near the start up
time. Then add more heat as Pasha said.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
<br>
On 10/06/2010 10:55 PM, Pasha Korber-Gonzalez wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have found with my own projects that even
sometimes when
the HVAC designer has specified a specific capacity for htg water
equipment
that sometime in my model file I still have unmet loads for htg. I
suggest at this point specify additional htg capacity by either
increasing the
reheat delta-T from say 30F to 50F and/or adding zone level
baseboards.
By adding the baseboards you are adding a component of the system that
will
supplement the skin losses being experienced by the simulation model.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">by adding baseboards for the additional
requrired heat then
you should be able to meet your heating loads.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">hope this helps,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">pasha<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 7:38 PM, Robert Des
Rosiers <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:desrosiers@studioma.com">desrosiers@studioma.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">All:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">I
have completed an energy model for a baseline scenario from which to
compare my
proposed design. The baseline HVAC system is a constant volume single
zone AHU w/ no reheat; the AHU is served by HW and CHW loop from a
central
plant. I have set this up in eQuest as a "Variable Air Volume"
system type with the AHU fan control set to "Constant Volume"; my
thought here is that each zone fed by the AHU will control temperature
using a
VAV box w/ no local reheat or cooling. Flow and temperature from the
AHU
will be delivered based on the coolest or warmest zone it serves.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">All
seems fine with the design flows, ventilation flows and cooling
capacities. My problem is with the heating capacity as I have
excessive
unmet heating hours (50,000). I have allowed eQuest to size the
heating
capacity of the preheat and heating coil as well as the minimum flow
ratios. <u>Does anyone have any thoughts as to what is causing these
unmet heating load hours? Is the way I have set-up the desired
baseline
HVAC system incorrect?</u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Any
guidance is greatly appreciated. Thanks -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Robert
Des Rosiers, LEED-AP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><b><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">STUDIO MA</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">130
N Central Avenue, No.300 Phoenix, Arizona 85004</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Telephone
602 251 3800</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Fax
602 251 3100</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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