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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hey Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>To be frank, I haven’t yet
modeled any LEED projects that would use systems 5+, so I have no direct
experience to relate. That said, if I were in an omniscient USGBC
reviewer’s shoes, and you presented this method of matching ventilation
rates, I would check that the design OA rates for each floor are roughly
matching the proposed values and design documents. The practice to specify
MIN-OA-RATIO’s at the system level to start, then tweaking as necessary
has (for me) turned out to be the most efficient way I’ve found of (1) getting
the baseline quantities to start in the right vicinity relative to the
proposed, and (2) maintain an equal distribution of the OA to each zone. As
you point out, it’s on us to not bend the rules and redistribute the OA
in a way that is advantageous… <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Off the top of my head, I think
for baseline systems 5+, I would follow the same basic procedure, using
MIN-OA-RATIO’s from the proposed to get a starting point. For step
5, it may be appropriate to use a zonal method to specify/tweak the resulting
ventilation rates to match, it would depend on the project-at-hand. On
the other hand, MIN-OA-RATIO may still be a viable option if the modeler will pay
mind as you say to treat each floor/system separately and not to simply match
the gross values for the building.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I have not received any USGBC commentary
raising issues with this approach – as a simple disclaimer: that’s
not to say it has actually been scrutinized!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’d love to hear others
share their approaches if you have a “normal” procedure… I’m
sure there’s a variety out there and we might all learn something =).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37
id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CAFCBC.FF646060"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west
valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913
344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913
345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Check out
our new web-site @ </span></i><span style='color:#1F497D'><a
href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Tomlinson, Scott
[mailto:stomlinson@smma.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] eQuest - outside air heating issues<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>First off, thanks for the reply.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>If I am understanding you
correctly, your method is getting the total OA of each model to match up, and
you are doing this at the system level for both the design and baseline
buildings. This differs from my method, where I am trying to get the OA
rates to match up for each zone of the two models.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Your method would seem to work
for a baseline system type 1, 2, 3 or 4, where each thermal block needs to be
modeled as a separate system, but for a system 5, 6, 7 or 8 (where each floor
of the baseline building needs to be modeled with a separate HVAC system) I
would think you would have difficulty getting things to match up. When
you work on these higher system types, and you are modifying the OA ratios of
your baseline systems, do you do it equally for all the systems? If not,
I would think this could give you some freedom the ‘game’ your
baseline model in a way that USGBC would not approve of. I’m not
saying you personally would do this, let me use my current model as an example.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>My current building is a 3 story
system 8 school. The design building has some AHUs (about 25% OA), some
ERUs (100% OA) and some UHs (0% OA). Now, using my method of entering the
OA at the zone level in the baseline building things are working out that I
need energy recovery in the first floor HVAC system, but not the second or
third floor systems. If I use your method of getting the total building
OA rates to match (and if I am understanding it correctly), what would stop me
from taking some of the OA from the first floor system and transferring it to
the second are third floor systems so I can get all three systems under the
requirements for energy recovery, and provide myself some artificially inflated
energy savings, while keeping my total building OA rates equal? In my
very limited feedback from USGBC it seems like they don’t like letting
the modeler have such freedoms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Have you ever had any issues
with USGBC using your method?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Nick Caton
[mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tomlinson, Scott; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] eQuest - outside air heating issues<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Scott, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I want to say off the bat that
you actually are asking a very good and fundamental question: What is a
“best practice” for matching baseline ventilation air rates to the
proposed model? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>My general processes is:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>where I’ll
build a proposed model to match the drawings/schedules, address anything that
results in odd results/ warnings / unmet hours.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Build the baseline
– clear out any zone/system level OA inputs to autosize, then <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>For each airside
system, enter the 1.15/1.25 oversizing parameters and a “MIN-OA-RATIO”
at the system level to match the corresponding proposed design model’s
system ratio<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>4.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Run both simulations
and compare results for ventilation air to determine if things are way off (and
they have been) – I use the SV-A reports and excel for this comparison<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>5.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Tweak baseline
systems’ OA-RATIOs as required up or down to make the total ventilation
air sync with the proposed model’s. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Following this procedure, which
I document for model review, the design system OA sums between the baseline
model, proposed model, and construction documents are typically very close to
each other, if not perfectly in sync.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Is this a procedure others are
following or is there a simpler way?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>To the rest of your email…
Different systems will use different amounts/types of energy for the same
amount of load (OA). Your baseline model’s tripling of gas
consumption isn’t something I’d immediately discount as
unreasonable, but worth reviewing to find something you may have missed –
perhaps lowering CFM’s are the culprit? In some cases, the core
“secret” to surprisingly outstanding proposed/baseline performance
is getting lucky with a terrible baseline… the prescriptive
requirements, by their nature, can be close to or far from “a good
idea” for any given project/site.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=119
height=37 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CAFCBC.FF646060"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tomlinson,
Scott<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] eQuest - outside air heating issues<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hello all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I have a question regarding outside air input. For my
design building I enter my outside air at the system level, as the minimum
outside air ratio, which I get from my equipment schedules. 90.1 requires
that the outside airflow be the same. To do this I take my summary report
from my design building and enter the values from that report into the baseline
model zones. When I run my baseline model the outside airflow rates from
the summary report match those of my design model, and my unmet heating hours
are good in both models, but the heating gas consumption in my baseline
building triples. The result is I am getting great, but unrealistic,
energy savings.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Does anyone know why this is happening? Why would
entering the OA at the zone level cause such increased heating for the save
total CFM entered at the system level? How are you folks typically
handling your outside ventilation air.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<td colspan=3 style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>Scott Tomlinson, PE, LEED-AP</span></b><span
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