Hi Otto,<br><br>If I were a betting woman I would place a lot of money on eQUEST functioning properly vis a vis building orientation. That bug would have been fixed years ago. The beauty of an 8,760 hour/year interactive program are just that: 8760 hours of weather data and a program that accounts for all of the building interactions. The interactions include the shell, the lights, the people, the coming and going, shutting on and off, etc., etc. You are getting good feedback from Paul and Nick. Keep the faith and keep fixing your input. Don't spend too much time thinking the model isn't working right; spend it instead making the input right.<br>
<br>Regards,<br>Carol<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Nick Caton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">With that extra background, and glancing at this new baseline, I
can guess where your analysis may have gone awry…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Your assumed behavior, that “energy spent cooling”
ought to be higher with the glass facing South, is certainly logical for a
project in the Northern Hemisphere, as the cooling season solar contributions ought
to be higher facing South (barring any shades, of course). If you’ll
run a 180-azimuth parametric calc on your “North Baseline” most
recently uploaded, you can observe this is exactly the behavior being modeled (check
out SIM report LS-B to compare solar contributions for each run).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Where I think you’re making a leap is assuming a higher “space
cool” consumption figures equal higher cooling loads. If you’ll
check those same reports, you’ll find you actually do have higher peak
cooling loads when facing south. The lower South-facing “space cool”
energy consumption figures come alongside higher “ventilation” consumption
figures – eQuest appears to be up-sizing your South-facing <u>CFM</u>’s
and/or <u>run-time</u> instead of cooling coil/condenser capacities. With
some additional inputs you may be able to lock-in the fan and airflow capacities,
which would force your condensers to do more of the fan’s work (higher
coil capacities), resulting in a higher “space cool” total, if that’s
what you’d like the reports to show. Ultimately your South-facing
run may simply need to run your fans more often over the year, so you may not
be able to entirely avoid a higher ventilation total…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Of note, for any orientation, it appears you have a significant
number of under-heated hours. You’ve may want to review your equipment
heating temperature setpoints and/or space/equipment CFM inputs. You may already
know this, but as an additional reminder: your classroom as modeled is only
going to interact with the exterior conditions on the single exterior wall, as
the other three “internal walls” simply model space thermal massing
and heat transfer to other spaces.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Best of luck,</span></p><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img src="cid:image001.jpg@01CAF5DF.FEC42520" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" width="119" height="37"></span><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;"> </span></u><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
</div><div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Otto Schwieterman
[mailto:<a href="mailto:oschwieterman@fhai.com" target="_blank">oschwieterman@fhai.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 17, 2010 3:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton; Paul Riemer; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Building Orientation Accuracy?</div></div></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I want to thank everyone for their help.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> Originally, I created one north facing classroom and ran
the simulation, then I rotated it 180 degrees. The heating results were
acceptable but the cooling results were odd. The cooling consumption was
greater on the north facing orientation than the south facing orientation. The
weather file is Dayton Ohio so this does not make sense. I then tried to copy
the classroom and rotate one of the classrooms so I had a north facing and
south facing classroom. I did not realize that eQUEST changed some of the
plenum and interior wall values when I copied the original classroom.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I am still trying to figure out why the north facing classroom
requires more cooling than when I rotate the building 180 degrees and
essentially have a south facing classroom. I would think that because of solar
heat gain the south facing classroom would require more cooling. I have
attached a simplified classroom (I did not copy so there should be no room for
errors).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Nick Caton
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 17, 2010 4:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Otto Schwieterman; Paul Riemer; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Building Orientation Accuracy?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Otto,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I just looked at your revised files – you are still
modeling two seemingly fairly different classrooms. Note your
“North” classroom has adiabatic internal walls/ceiling and your
“South” classroom has heat transferring ones. I haven’t
scoured for other differences that may well be in there regarding schedule
assignments and such – I don’t know of a fast way to do so.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If you’re truly concerned with eQuest’s ability to
correctly account for a varying azimuth and want to test it, you could make
your task easier by creating a square classroom with identical walls on each
side and observe identical results with 0,90,180,270 degree azimuths.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img src="cid:image001.jpg@01CAF5DF.FEC42520" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" width="119" border="0" height="37"></span><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;"> </span></u><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Otto
Schwieterman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 17, 2010 3:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Riemer; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Building Orientation Accuracy?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">I fixed the differences and now I get the following results:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">North Facing: Space Cooling: 4.1 MBTU, Space Heating: 21.7
MBTU</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">South Facing: Space Cooling: 4.3 MBTU, Space Heating: 18.7
MBTU</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">When I change the orientation 180 degrees, the results are:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">North Facing: Space Cooling: 3.8 MBTU, Space Heating: 22.6
MBTU</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">South Facing: Space Cooling: 3.6 MBTU, Space Heating: 17.8
MBTU</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">These also seem incorrect for the same reason.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Paul Riemer
[mailto:<a href="mailto:Paul.Riemer@dunhameng.com" target="_blank">Paul.Riemer@dunhameng.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 17, 2010 3:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Otto Schwieterman; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Building Orientation Accuracy?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Otto,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Your north and south have different inputs. I specifically
noted plenums temperature set points and plenum floor weight.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I suggest you clean it up and run it again.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Paul Riemer</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Dunham</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Otto
Schwieterman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 17, 2010 2:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Building Orientation Accuracy?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">I have noticed that eQUEST does not accurately determine the
cooling and heating loads when rotating the building 180 degrees using the
Azimuth feature under the building properties in the detailed edit mode. I
created and attached a file where there are two classrooms. One classroom faces
north and one faces south. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">When I run the simulation I get the following results: </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">North Facing: Space Cooling: 4.1 MBTU, Space Heating: 21.9
MBTU</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">South Facing: Space Cooling: 4.3 MBTU, Space Heating: 18.9
MBTU</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">When I change the orientation 180 degrees, the results are:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">North Facing: Space Cooling: 3.9 MBTU, Space Heating: 23.0
MBTU</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">South Facing: Space Cooling: 3.6 MBTU, Space Heating: 18.1
MBTU</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">When I rotate the site 180 degrees the north and south facing
energy consumption is different (they should be exactly the same). Also, the
space cooling does not make sense because the building’s weather file is
Dayton Ohio and the south facing classroom should use more cooling than the
north facing classroom.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">This makes me assume that eQUEST has a problem with building
rotation in the detailed edit mode. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Please check to see if I am assuming this correctly because
this will affect every LEED project.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">Otto Schwieterman</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
</div>
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