Hi Paul, <br><br>I think Matt is on to something. It does have options for both and you can use Equip Control and maybe Load Management commands. This is heady stuff for a newbie, however, so I would suggest you hire someone to do a peer review with you or to work with you. <br>
<br>So, this is an existing building, right? You will also need to bill match, etc. Where do you actually sit? In Uraguay?<br><br>Carol<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Matthew Dubrovich <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mdubrovich@emcengineers.com">mdubrovich@emcengineers.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Paul,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Though I haven’t had the opportunity to use either yet, eQuest
has options for both heat recovery chillers and heat pump chillers,
correct? You can tie the heat recovery chiller into your hot water loop
and it should show both a heating savings and condenser fan savings (eliminating
those hand calcs hopefully). The heat pump chillers can be sequenced through
Equipment Controls and Load Management to only come on as necessary, after the
165 ton chiller is maxed out. Coupling the heat pumps with your hot water
system may be more of a challenge. Good luck.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Matt</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul
Brooks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 07, 2010 9:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carol Gardner<div class="im"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump to
model question</div></div></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, I did.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, it is an air-cooled Trane Chiller that has total energy
recovery. It is a non-US product, made by Trane in Europe. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The concept is that the chiller provids chilled water, and
the energy recovery side provides hot water for reheat at VAV boxes
when needed.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In addition, there are two heat pumps (reversible chillers
as the liturature says)that will pprovide additional capacity to etther
the chilled water loop or the hot water loop as needed.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is for a 110,000 sf high end office building in
Uruguay. Uruguay is ASHRAE climate zone 3, similar to the
US southeast, primarily Georga/northern Florida.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Links to product information:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chiller with energy recovery: <a href="http://doc.trane-eur.com/marketing/cdtrane.nsf/PdfByName/RLC-PRC026-E4_1205.pdf/$file/RLC-PRC026-E4_1205.pdf" target="_blank">http://doc.trane-eur.com/marketing/cdtrane.nsf/PdfByName/RLC-PRC026-E4_1205.pdf/$file/RLC-PRC026-E4_1205.pdf</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Heat pumps: <a href="http://doc.trane-eur.com/Marketing/CdTrane.nsf/PdfByName/CG-PRC015-E4_0708.pdf/$file/CG-PRC015-E4_0708.pdf" target="_blank">http://doc.trane-eur.com/Marketing/CdTrane.nsf/PdfByName/CG-PRC015-E4_0708.pdf/$file/CG-PRC015-E4_0708.pdf</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am thinking i will need to do a lot of hand calcs for
energy use of the chiller and how much "free" heating water I will
get. the hard part is going to be how to account for saving by not
running condenser fans. Yes, it will be a challenge to get it through
GBCI review, but if the logic is sound, it will not be that hard.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Any suggestions on how to wet up a model in eQuest to
minimize amount of hand calculations?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
<hr width="100%" align="center" size="1">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Carol Gardner <<a href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com" target="_blank">cmg750@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Brooks <<a href="mailto:equestpaul@yahoo.com" target="_blank">equestpaul@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Fri, May 7, 2010 1:54:56 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Complex chiller/heat recovery/heat pump to
model question<br>
</span><br>
It looks like you stunned everyone into silence, Paul.<br>
<br>
So you have 1) an air cooled chiller, 2) heat recovery sending HW to only your
reheat coils, 3) 2 air cooled heat pumps that can also provide cool or hot
water to circulation loops, 4) french hens, and a partridge in a pear
treee...OOPS, its late!<br>
<br>
This looks like entropy to me. Try once more to share all of this. I would
suggest an itemized list that identifies the equipment type, it's specific use,
it's model no. etc. and any comments. Maybe an excel spreadsheet would work
best. <br>
<br>
Another issue: this project will be neigh on impossible for a LEED reviewer to
review, too. That is neither good or bad, it just is. <br>
<br>
I will help you as I can, when I can, but I must work for food too. Nobody pays
me, yet, to help anyone.<br>
<br>
Keep the faith,<br>
Carol</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Paul Brooks <<a href="mailto:equestpaul@yahoo.com" target="_blank">equestpaul@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am modeling a building in Uruguay that has a Trane 165 ton
Air cooled chiller, (RTAD 165 SE, not available in US.) In addition to
air-cooling, the chiller has a heat exchanger to recover heat for whatever
use you want. Obviously the heat recovery means that in the right
condisitons the condenser fans will not run as much.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For this application, the heat is to be recovered
to provide heating hot water VAV box re-heat coils. In
addition to this, there are two air cooled heat pumps (CXAN 214, not
available in US) that are available to augment the chiller or the hot wateer
loop.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, my dilemma, is how to model this in eQuest. I
am still more or less a novice user. I am in the detail mode,
and see that I can do some things with condenser water, but then how
do I model the condenser fans? How do I tie in the heat pump loops?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Lastly, this is a LEED model. So, any thoughts on how
to get data and then do hand calcs to prove savings are also
welcome. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If interestede in seeing info on the equipment, go to <a href="http://trane-eur.com/" target="_blank">Trane-eur.com</a>.
information is available in english for these models. Your local trane rep will
probably not be able to help.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users mailing list<br>
<a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div></div></div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users mailing list<br>
<a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><div style="visibility: hidden; display: inline;" id="avg_ls_inline_popup"></div><style type="text/css">#avg_ls_inline_popup { position:absolute; z-index:9999; padding: 0px 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; width: 240px; overflow: hidden; word-wrap: break-word; color: black; font-size: 10px; text-align: left; line-height: 13px;}</style>