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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=833194912-12042010><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Greg,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=833194912-12042010><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=833194912-12042010><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>what the error message should say is that you need MORE
THAN 6 degrees. I simply changed your ECHWT to 55.9 so the approach was
now 6.1 degrees and the simulation worked with the IU system. I also
changed your CHW DT to 6 degrees instead of the default 10 but I'm not sure
whether eQUEST forces you to keep it at that number or not..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN
lang=en-us><B><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>John Grando</FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2> </FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>LEED
AP</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>| </FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#808080
size=2>Mechanical Engineer</FONT></B></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-us><BR></SPAN><BR><SPAN lang=en-us><FONT face=Arial> </FONT></SPAN>
</P>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Greg Collins [mailto:GCollins@glumac.com]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2010 6:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Bruce
Easterbrook<BR><B>Cc:</B> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Thanks to everybody for the
interest and feedback so far..<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Chilled water supply to the
beams is 56F. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I’ve attached my inp and pd2
files in case anybody wants a closer look. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Greg<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
Bruce Easterbrook [mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09,
2010 2:24 PM<BR><B>Cc:</B> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil
System<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Maybe you are now running into what eQuest uses to prevent
condensation on the chilled beam coil. Condensation would be allowed in
the FCU as it could/would have a drain tray. Where the mixing takes place
is important on the chilled beam. eQuest should consider the mixing takes
place after the coil and the warm humid air is entering the coil. I would
think eQuest would be set up to prevent condensation on the coil, you don't want
water dripping out of the unit. What is the temperature of your chilled
water supply?<BR>Bruce<BR><BR>On 09/04/2010 04:32 PM, Greg Collins wrote:
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I have tried it, but I end up
getting an error saying the leaving air temp off the coil needs to be at least
6F higher than the entering water temp to the coil, and for some reason I don’t
get the same error for the FCU. In an active chilled beam, the coil is
actually just cooling the room induction air, then mixing it with the primary
air from the DOAS. I think that equest assumes the air mixes before
entering the coil, which fundamentally is the same thing, but the numbers trip
this error message. I’ll look into more why the FC system doesn’t make
that happen, but the two seem to be essentially the same system except for the
fan (which I make 0.000001 kW/cfm anyway).</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
Grando, John [<A
href="mailto:JGrando@cosentini.com">mailto:JGrando@cosentini.com</A>]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2010 1:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Greg Collins;
Bruce Easterbrook<BR><B>Cc:</B> <A
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
RE: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil
System</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Have you
looked into SYSTEM TYPE = IU (Induction Unit). This may be a better
path to try.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">John
Grando</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">LEED
AP</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">| </SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Mechanical
Engineer</SPAN><BR></B><BR><BR><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
Greg Collins [<A
href="mailto:GCollins@glumac.com">mailto:GCollins@glumac.com</A>]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2010 2:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Bruce
Easterbrook<BR><B>Cc:</B> <A
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Bruce,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I agree with your theory and the
justification, but the question is ultimately “how to model it?” I don’t
think you can put in negative heat for a baseboard system, hook it up to a
chilled water loop and get results you can count on. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Greg</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
Bruce Easterbrook [<A
href="mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca">mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, April 09, 2010 8:59 AM<BR><B>Cc:</B> <A
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil
System</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> I'm not totally up on using DOAS with
eQuest or with chilled beams being in Canada but it would seem to me the OA will
have to be used to control humidity in the space. The chilled beam should
not be used for latent cooling, sensible only, to prevent condensation
issues. The DOAS will need to control the dewpoint of the room air and
maintain it below the operating temperature of the coil in the chilled
beam. The chilled beam would only be dealing with the sensible load from
the space. The DOAS would do everything else. The question would be
will eQuest allow a single zone AHU c/w economizer and a baseboard system with
negative heat? I have never tried that with eQuest.<BR>Bruce
Easterbrook<BR>Abode Engineering<BR><BR>On 08/04/2010 04:46 PM, James Hansen
wrote: <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I’m interested in this as well –
I know that in DOAS systems like active chilled beams, the primary air often
takes on a fairly large chunk of space latent cooling, and if this can’t be
passed on from the DOAS system to the space, then I don’t see how we can believe
the results.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="COLOR: teal; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">GHT
Limited<BR></SPAN></B><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">James
Hansen</SPAN>, PE, LEED AP</B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Senior
Associate</SPAN></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">1010 N. Glebe Rd,
Suite 200</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Arlington, VA
22201-4749</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
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href="http://www.ghtltd.com/"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">www.ghtltd.com</SPAN></A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
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style="COLOR: #31849b"> </SPAN></B><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> <A
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Greg Collins<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 08, 2010 4:39
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
[Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil
System</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>I’m working on modeling an active chilled beam system.
It consists of the chilled beams and a dedicated unit to provide primary air
(mainly ventilation air) to the beams at 55 degrees. I’ve modeled the
chilled beam system as a fan coil system, but am wondering about my options for
modeling the primary air. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>My question is this: If I attach the
primary/ventilation air unit to the fan coil system in the FC’s Outdoor Air tab
under “Outside Air from System” will the temperature of the air coming from that
unit have an impact on the load in the space? I have a ton of hours at
very low load during the winter months, and I want eQuest to use the 55 degree
primary air as the first stage of cooling for the space and not “double up” the
cooling energy by cooling the 55 degree air and then not use that for cooling in
the zones.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>If anybody has some input, it would be appreciated.
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Greg
Collins</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Design Engineer /
Energy Analyst</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Mechanical
Department</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">LEED® Accredited
Professional</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><BR><BR></SPAN><A
href="http://www.glumac.com/"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><IMG
id=Picture_x0020_1 height=41 alt=http://www.glumac.com/glumacsig.gif
src="cid:833194912@12042010-24DF" width=343 border=0></SPAN></A><o:p></o:p></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">NOTE OUR
NEW ADDRESS</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">18200 Von Karman Ave.,
Suite 100</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Irvine, CA
92612</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">T.
949.833.8190 F. 949.833.0252<BR><BR></SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Thinking.
Inside the building.</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A
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intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of GHT
Limited. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or
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e-mail or by e-mail to </SPAN><SPAN
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you.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P><PRE> <o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE> <o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Equest-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><A href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</A><o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <A href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</A><o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE> <o:p></o:p></PRE>
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