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<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">My main comment, indirectly,
was that in my opinion chilled beams are a dry climate device as I
noticed James was from Arlington VA. You will be dealing with incoming
air with a 57F dew point and James will have a 66F DP. You will have a
latent load from the people in the room and their outside air
requirement. Phoenix for example would have a 49F DP. Part of this
will also depend on your chilled water temperature, that will set the
dewpoint you have to control to in the room. Typically once you have
to do any major dehumidification all the capacity you require is
already in the DOAS. You won't need a chilled beam. You let the
humidity float in a wider band to avoid having to reheat your air
stream. I would do it initially as a single zone air handler</font>
with an economizer for the economics, capacities and a check on air
temperatures. You could then manually split off the capacity of the
chilled beam adding more fan energy and maybe pumping energy to run the
beam. The item to resolve is the tipping point for your area and
system adding the increased cost, energy and complexity of the chilled
beam system compared to its advantages. The main one being reducing the
size of the DOAS. One other item to consider is using your chilled
water return flow for the beam, with it being a higher temperature it
might be a more suitable flow for the chilled beam and allow an
increase of the humidity in the room.<br>
Bruce<br>
<br>
On 09/04/2010 01:59 PM, Greg Collins wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Bruce,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I agree
with your theory and the
justification, but the question is ultimately “how to model it?” I
don’t think
you can put in negative heat for a baseboard system, hook it up to a
chilled
water loop and get results you can count on. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
Bruce Easterbrook [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca">mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 09, 2010 8:59 AM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> I'm not totally up on using DOAS with
eQuest or with chilled beams being in Canada but it would seem to me
the OA
will have to be used to control humidity in the space. The chilled
beam
should not be used for latent cooling, sensible only, to prevent
condensation
issues. The DOAS will need to control the dewpoint of the room air and
maintain it below the operating temperature of the coil in the chilled
beam. The chilled beam would only be dealing with the sensible load
from
the space. The DOAS would do everything else. The question would be
will eQuest allow a single zone AHU c/w economizer and a baseboard
system with
negative heat? I have never tried that with eQuest.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
<br>
On 08/04/2010 04:46 PM, James Hansen wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’m
interested in this as well –
I know that in DOAS systems like active chilled beams, the primary air
often takes
on a fairly large chunk of space latent cooling, and if this can’t be
passed on
from the DOAS system to the space, then I don’t see how we can believe
the
results.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
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</span></b><b><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">James
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Collins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 08, 2010 4:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m working on modeling an active chilled beam
system.
It consists of the chilled beams and a dedicated unit to provide
primary air
(mainly ventilation air) to the beams at 55 degrees. I’ve modeled the
chilled beam system as a fan coil system, but am wondering about my
options for
modeling the primary air. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My question is this: If I attach the
primary/ventilation air unit to the fan coil system in the FC’s Outdoor
Air tab
under “Outside Air from System” will the temperature of the air coming
from
that unit have an impact on the load in the space? I have a ton of
hours
at very low load during the winter months, and I want eQuest to use the
55
degree primary air as the first stage of cooling for the space and not
“double
up” the cooling energy by cooling the 55 degree air and then not use
that for
cooling in the zones.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If anybody has some input, it would be
appreciated. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Greg
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