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<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Maybe you are now running
into what eQuest uses to prevent condensation on the chilled beam
coil. Condensation would be allowed in the FCU as it could/would have
a drain tray.</font> Where the mixing takes place is important on the
chilled beam. eQuest should consider the mixing takes place after the
coil and the warm humid air is entering the coil. I would think eQuest
would be set up to prevent condensation on the coil, you don't want
water dripping out of the unit. What is the temperature of your
chilled water supply?<br>
Bruce<br>
<br>
On 09/04/2010 04:32 PM, Greg Collins wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I have
tried it, but I end up
getting an error saying the leaving air temp off the coil needs to be
at least
6F higher than the entering water temp to the coil, and for some reason
I don’t
get the same error for the FCU. In an active chilled beam, the coil is
actually
just cooling the room induction air, then mixing it with the primary
air from
the DOAS. I think that equest assumes the air mixes before entering
the coil,
which fundamentally is the same thing, but the numbers trip this error
message.
I’ll look into more why the FC system doesn’t make that happen, but
the two seem
to be essentially the same system except for the fan (which I make
0.000001
kW/cfm anyway).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
Grando, John
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:JGrando@cosentini.com">mailto:JGrando@cosentini.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 09, 2010 1:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Collins; Bruce Easterbrook<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">Have
you looked into SYSTEM TYPE = IU (Induction Unit).
This may be a better path to try.</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: windowtext;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: windowtext;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p><br>
<b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">John
Grando</span></b><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">
</span></b><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: blue;">LEED
AP</span></b><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">| </span></b><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: gray;">Mechanical
Engineer</span><br>
</b><br>
<br>
<span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"> </span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: windowtext;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: windowtext;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: windowtext;">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
Greg
Collins [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:GCollins@glumac.com">mailto:GCollins@glumac.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 09, 2010 2:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bruce Easterbrook<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: windowtext;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Bruce,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I agree
with your theory and the
justification, but the question is ultimately “how to model it?” I
don’t
think you can put in negative heat for a baseboard system, hook it up
to a
chilled water loop and get results you can count on. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
Bruce Easterbrook
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca">mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 09, 2010 8:59 AM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> I'm not totally up on using DOAS with
eQuest or with chilled beams being in Canada but it would seem to me
the OA
will have to be used to control humidity in the space. The chilled
beam
should not be used for latent cooling, sensible only, to prevent
condensation
issues. The DOAS will need to control the dewpoint of the room air and
maintain it below the operating temperature of the coil in the chilled
beam. The chilled beam would only be dealing with the sensible load
from
the space. The DOAS would do everything else. The question would be
will eQuest allow a single zone AHU c/w economizer and a baseboard
system with
negative heat? I have never tried that with eQuest.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
<br>
On 08/04/2010 04:46 PM, James Hansen wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’m
interested in this as well –
I know that in DOAS systems like active chilled beams, the primary air
often
takes on a fairly large chunk of space latent cooling, and if this
can’t be
passed on from the DOAS system to the space, then I don’t see how we
can
believe the results.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: windowtext -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Collins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 08, 2010 4:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m working on modeling an active chilled beam
system.
It consists of the chilled beams and a dedicated unit to provide
primary air
(mainly ventilation air) to the beams at 55 degrees. I’ve modeled the
chilled beam system as a fan coil system, but am wondering about my
options for
modeling the primary air. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My question is this: If I attach the
primary/ventilation air unit to the fan coil system in the FC’s Outdoor
Air tab
under “Outside Air from System” will the temperature of the air coming
from
that unit have an impact on the load in the space? I have a ton of
hours
at very low load during the winter months, and I want eQuest to use the
55
degree primary air as the first stage of cooling for the space and not
“double
up” the cooling energy by cooling the 55 degree air and then not use
that for
cooling in the zones.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If anybody has some input, it would be
appreciated. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Greg
Collins</span></b><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";"><br>
</span><span
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