<div>Hi,</div>
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<div>I don't have the experience with a CI project (always NC/EB for me), but in CH 11 (ECB method) of 90.1 there is an informative note on page 66 in the 2007 version under section 11.1.4 Compliance. This note states:</div>
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<div>"The energy cost budget and the design energy cost calculations are applicable only for determining compliance with this standard. They are not predictions of actual energy consumption or costs of the proposed design after construction. Actual experience will differ from these calculations due to variations such as occupancy, building operation and maintenance, weather, energy use not covered by this standard, changes in energy rates between design of the building and occupancy, and precision of the calculation tool."</div>
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<div>These are my educated guesses based on how I have always understood CH 11 to be: </div>
<div>1) It would be difficult and time wasting to simulate the effects of energy use in all other tenant spaces in such a large building, in an existing building case-to accuratly model the building energy supply systems, whereas most of the other spaces wouldn't be impacting the basic energy consumption of the smaller area of the individual tenant space (think BIG 'chunck of the pie' versus little 'chunck of the pie.')</div>
<div>2) Where tenant space energy rates are based on the effects of thier own little space, (not many influences from other spaces--then [again] why spend the time modeling the other spaces (i.e. the rest of the building.)</div>
<div>3) Alternatively, speaking within the requirements of LEED compliance, the amount of energy savings opportunity (by LEED's scale) goes way, way down when you are are looking at; for example, 40,000 sf of tenant space versus 2,000,000 sf of building floor area. Now your 30% savings over baseline design (tenant space floor area only) turns into .6% savings compared to the whole building baseline design. This wouldn't be fair to any tenant trying to demonstrate an impact for thier energy conservation efforts. <br>
<br>Although the reality might be they are "just a little fish in a big sea', and it doesn't make a difference in the larger picture; however it still is also the reality that it takes everyone to do just a little all together to make a HUGE difference. So why can't we magnify the scale a bit to truly understand the significant impact being made relative to the space before energy improvments were made.</div>
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<div>...that's what I get from CH 11 and the logic of the compliance reference for LEED CI. </div>
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<div>I also want to recommend that you/your firm as the simulator(s) have a discussion or write a disclaimer for your energy results report/LEED calculation estimation--that you are not predicting what the tenant's utility bills will be by performing this compliance simulation. Because of the many varialbles that might not be accounted for in your model it just isn't possible to get that accurate for this modeling exercise (which is based on the CH 11 ECB method that you are being required to use.)</div>
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<div>pasha<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Grando, John <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:JGrando@cosentini.com">JGrando@cosentini.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" size="2" face="Arial">Was your design case a chilled water system? LEED CI says to use Section 11 (ECB Method) rather than Appendix G</font></span></div>
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<p><span lang="en-us"><font face="Arial"></font></span><br><span lang="en-us"><b><font color="#0000ff" size="2" face="Arial">John Grando</font><font size="2" face="Arial"> </font><font color="#0000ff" size="2" face="Arial">LEED AP</font><font size="2" face="Arial">| </font><font color="#808080" size="2" face="Arial">Mechanical Engineer</font><br>
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<div class="im"><b>From:</b> Nikola Kravik [mailto:<a href="mailto:nkravik@rumseyengineers.com" target="_blank">nkravik@rumseyengineers.com</a>] <br></div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:31 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Syed Mohsin Abidi'; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
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<div class="h5"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] LEED Commercial Interiors<br></div></div></font><br></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Do one floor only, not the entire building.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Watch out for the baseline system type choice.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Although is may seem strange, but your baseline should be CHW System, not Packaged or whatever the requirement is for one story bld. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">At least this is the approach I was told to use here in San Francisco, CA when I first modeled 6<sup>th</sup> floor (1 story LEED CI) out of 30+ high rise…….It wasn’t Equest as simulation tool, but that shouldn’t matter.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Others, can you add your experience with LEED CI?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Nikola</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Syed Mohsin Abidi<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 29, 2010 6:56 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] LEED Commercial Interiors</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Need help regarding LEED 2009 CI project. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Our project scope is just a single office floor in a 35 story high rise building in new York city. Now for simulation using EQUEST do we need to perform simulation for the entire building or just that one floor that is related to our scope of work in order to gain credits for Energy Atmosphere.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Please guide.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you,</p>
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<p style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 6.3pt" class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype','serif'">Syed Mohsin Abidi, </span></i></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">EIT, LEED AP</span><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype','serif'"></span></b></p>
<p style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 6.3pt" class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype','serif'; COLOR: #000099; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">TSF Engineering, P.C.</span></i></b><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype','serif'; COLOR: #000099; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Tel. 212.253.7303</span></i><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Fax.212.253.6512</span></i><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino Linotype','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><a href="mailto:Sabidi@tsfengineers.com" target="_blank">Sabidi@tsfengineers.com</a></span></p>
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