<div>Thanks Bill,</div>
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<div>I do have specified 105 supply temp, 105 hot deck max temp, 50F reheat delta T. For some reason my results are very low for my ASHRAE baseline building & they are showing virtually 1% heating energy consumption overall in my building, and I have one standard effeicency boiler in the plant side.</div>
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<div>This is what I know (by gut feel) the issue is--somewhere in the airside I have either turned on or off some control or schedule--along with when I set up the model using the wizard initial inputs they were for the proposed case (water-to-water heat pumps-geothermal htg/clg & serving all spaces including thermal displacement vent, natural vent zones (for htg baseboards), FC's etc. So----I am wondering if when I saved my file for the baseline model and then switched the plant equip (chiller/boiler) & VAV sys if there is a carry-over input from the HPsystems (or other) that is affecting the lack of heating energy with the standard systems.</div>
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<div>Not sure how to find a 'carry-over' input. I have compared my input files with examdiff program and couldn't find anything specific.</div>
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<div>I've attached the non-corrupted files to this email...</div>
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<div>pk<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Bishop, Bill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com">wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Pasha,</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">For VAV systems you also have to specify the HEAT-SET-T (Hot Deck Max Leaving Temp) to enable the main air handler heating coil. You can’t just leave the field blank. For example, if your <span>room supply</span> air temperature is 90F and you have 30F reheat, enter 60F for the hot deck temp.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,<br>Bill</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="black" size="2" face="Franklin Gothic Medium"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Franklin Gothic Medium'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">William Bishop, EIT, LEED<sup>®</sup> AP </span></font></b><b><font color="#006600" size="2" face="Franklin Gothic Medium"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Franklin Gothic Medium'; COLOR: #006600; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">|</span></font></b><b><font color="black" size="2" face="Franklin Gothic Medium"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Franklin Gothic Medium'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold"> </span></font></b><b><font color="black" size="2" face="Franklin Gothic Medium"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Franklin Gothic Medium'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP</span></font></b><b><font color="black" size="2" face="Franklin Gothic Medium"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Franklin Gothic Medium'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold"></span></font></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Pasha Korber-Gonzalez
<div class="im"><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 08, 2010 10:30 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> John Aulbach<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</span></b> eQUEST Users List<br>
</div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users] Fwd: no heating loads to systems --part II</span></font>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thanks John/Vik- Yes. but when I do put in reheat that is the only way the systems are receiving reheat, so my question is why are the heating coils not doing the primary heating wherefore in my case file, all of the heating is up to either reheat (specified by me) or via baseboards (also specified by me.) </span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The big question is: why aren't the heating coils doing the job first, and then the excess is to be made up via reheat and/or baseboards.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I have not specified any input for humidty control (based on the help file recommendations--b/c we don't have humidification control in the proposed building...</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The DOE2 help file indicates:</span></font></p></div>
<h5><b><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">REHEAT-DELTA-T</span></font></b></h5>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Maximum increase in temperature for supply air passing through the zone (or subzone) reheat coils. The value specified here applies to all zones in the system. <span style="BACKGROUND: #ffff66">This keyword is required in order to simulate heating the air as it passes through the terminal reheat coil.</span> Note that when very little air is passed (see MIN-FLOW-RATIO) there may be insufficient reheating.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The highlighted statement is noted, but it still doesn't indicate that this input is required <u>in order to simulate any heating requirement.</u> It only states it is required to simulate reheat heating requirements. Why don't the heating coils work in my model is my "black & white" question.... all in all my space heating energy (with reheat & baseboards) is only 1% of the total building energy for a climate in Vancouver, BC... why is it so low?</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">...if I am just really missing something---please don't hesitate to tell me so. ---- I have also specified the hot deck temp coming off the htg coils which then gave me some capacity in my heating coils, but unfortunately by adding this input all of my numbers have dropped instead of increased.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I also looked back into the archives to find an answer to this issue--I found two others who were having the same problems I have, but they have responded that they never figured out the problem either...</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Pasha</span></font></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:34 PM, John Aulbach <<a href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jra_sac@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I believe the short answer to this is that not all VAV zones have reheat. Therefore, you need to put reheat in the zones that have it. otherwise, all systems would get reheat.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">John Aulbach</span></font></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Pasha Korber-Gonzalez <<a href="mailto:pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com" target="_blank">pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> eQUEST Users List <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>; Vikram Sami <<a href="mailto:vsami@lasarchitect.com" target="_blank">vsami@lasarchitect.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Sat, March 6, 2010 9:30:09 PM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> [Equest-users] Fwd: no heating loads to systems --part II</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thank you both for looking at this. I'm a bit dumbfounded that it can't be as easy as the fact that I need to specify reheat, since I have indicated that it is a VAV with reheat system, but if that is the case then I will re-instate the reheat delta t so that I can generate heating energy. (when I had input a reheat delta t of 30 degrees F, I was able to successfully fun a simulation, but the heating energy numbers where so high (i.e. 30 kWH/sq ft or more) that it just didn't seem like this was the correct input for my model.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I just think that it is a bit weird even for the programming that the only way I can get heat out of the heating coil is that I have to enlist reheat or baseboards in order for the system to assume that there is a heating load.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I understand the logic of why this works, but I don't understand why it is a requirement in DOE to have some or ll of the heating capacity specified for it to "autosize" or react to the fact that heating loads need to be passed to the systems module only if reheat or baseboards are specified.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">If it is possible for any of the eQuest programmers to comment on this input requirement I would like to hear thier feedback. In the meantime, what I am understanding is that it is a requirement to specify supplementary heating (i.e reheat or baseboards) in DOE2 for a VAV reaheat system before DOE2 will allow a basic heating coil to assume a heating load...somebody please tell me I'm wrong-because this doesn't make sense.</span></font></p>
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<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Pasha</span></font></p></div>
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<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Seun Odukomaiya</span></b> <<a href="mailto:sodukomaiya@laceindy.com" target="_blank">sodukomaiya@laceindy.com</a>><br>
Date: Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 4:59 PM<br>Subject: RE: [Equest-users] no heating loads to systems --part II<br>To: Pasha Korber-Gonzalez <<a href="mailto:pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com" target="_blank">pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com</a>><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I took a look at your model. When employing a VAV-Reheat System as you have in your model, you must also specify the reheat Delta-T for the zone heating coils attached to the units (see attached screenshot). If this is not done, the program assumes that the zones have no reheat, and thus will never put a load on your hot water loop. This, in turn, causes the error that you've seen. The DOE-2 documentation describes it as follows:</span></font></p>
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<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Maximum increase in temperature for supply air passing through the zone (or subzone) reheat coils. The value specified here applies to all zones in the system. This keyword is required in order to simulate heating the air as it passes through the terminal reheat coil. Note that when very little air is passed (see MIN-FLOW-RATIO) there may be insufficient reheating.</span></font></p>
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<p><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">According to your model, the maximum zone entering supply air temperature is 105 degrees. I also noticed that your zone minimum entering supply temperature is 55 degrees. As such, you need to specify your reheat delta-T as 50 degrees (as in the screenshot). This ensures that your zone coils are able to raise the 55-degree air from the AHU up to the 105 degrees that you have specified. Try that, and your model should run just fine.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="navy" size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Seun Odukomaiya, LEED AP - </span></font></b><i><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-STYLE: italic; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mechanical Engineer</span></font></i></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">email: <a href="mailto:sodukomaiya@laceindy.com" target="_blank">sodukomaiya@laceindy.com</a></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="green" size="5" face="Webdings"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Webdings; COLOR: green; FONT-SIZE: 18pt">P</span></font><b><font color="green" size="2"><span style="COLOR: green; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold"> </span></font></b><b><font color="green" size="1"><span style="COLOR: green; FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.</span></font></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] On Behalf Of Pasha Korber-Gonzalez [<a href="mailto:pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com" target="_blank">pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, March 06, 2010 4:26 PM </span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> eQUEST Users List<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> [Equest-users] no heating loads to systems --part II</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hi all,</span></font></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">okay-I'm back to where I was last time I posted this question: why are there no heating loads being passed to my systems?</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Here's the story: (160,000 sf high school building)</span></font></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The attached file is my baseline 90.1 model using System 7 (VAV w/reheat)</span></font></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">As the file is now-I have removed the reheat delt-T (30 deg), and removed any baseboard heating in all /systems/zones and removed any input of heating capacity of the coils. With this, my file receives the following error:</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" face="Courier New"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">***ERROR***********************************************************************</span></font></p></div>
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<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Loop: Hot Water Loop has zero design flow.</span></font></p>
<p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Check input for consistency,<span style="BACKGROUND: #ffff33"> or specify design loads.</span></span></font></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Right now I am trying to have DOE2 'autosize' anything it can so that I can get a good run and go back and adjust equipment capacities....but I don't know where else I can look further for why the systems aren't receiving the design loads.---thus creating the above error. Something is stopping DOE from passing the loads to the systems. When I open my sim file, the only reports being produced are the L-reports. </span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">If anyone has any hints or can take a look to find what it is I'm missing--I know it's a simple thing, but can't seem to find why it is doing this. (I've been staring at these files tooo long...)</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">---on a side note--after all the help I received with this issue earlier this week I have input all of the temp schedules that are required, and all that I know needs to be input to get the systems to run. any help would be greatly appreciated so I don't have to go back and rebuild this model from the beginning....I'm too close to the end to go back and rebuild another file.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thanks in advance!</span></font></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Pasha</span></font></p></div>
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