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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would agree with Jonathan’s second
approach, include the fan power from the DOAS into the energy recovery of the
FCUs. If the DOAS has heating I suppose it could be accounted for under
preheating, though I have not tried that one yet. I have been told that using
dummy zones is not necessary good practice with equest though it has been
awhile since then. Good luck.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kevin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Grando, John
[mailto:JGrando@cosentini.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 04, 2010
2:15 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Jonathan Curtin; James Hansen;
Marcus Eliason; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users] eQuest
- FCU with DOAS</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thanks, what do you think about using
preheating the exhaust (i'm doing OA cooling only) to a temp that i'm fairly
certain is the zone max exhaust temp (75F) and then just subtracting out the
energy used to preheat the exhaust temp after the model runs? Any
comments?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><b><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-weight:bold'>John Grando</span></font></b><b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'> <font color=blue><span style='color:blue'>LEED AP</span></font></span></font></b><br>
<br>
<font face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Jonathan
Curtin [mailto:jcurtin@WylieAssociates.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 01, 2010 4:57
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Grando, John; James Hansen;
Marcus Eliason; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Equest-users] eQuest
- FCU with DOAS</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->All,<br>
<br>
I believe it is the RA temperature of the Dummy Zone that is passed to the
units with OA-From specified, so you are right John that the RA would be too
cold to return to an ERV, assuming your dummy space is something around 55F.<br>
<br>
I have spent many a late night trying to work around this problem and can
recommend the following approaches:<br>
1. Model any Energy Recovery as an exceptional calculation (in a separate
model) for LEED<br>
2. Incorporate the Energy Recovery into the FCUs or AHUs (although you have to
be really careful to properly account for your fan energy and flow rates).<br>
<br>
Regards,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><font size=2 face="GillSans Light"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"GillSans Light";font-weight:bold'> <font color="#4d4d4d"><span
style='color:#4D4D4D'>Jonathan M. Curtin, EIT, LEED</span></font></span></font></b><sup><font
size=2 face="GillSans Light"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"GillSans Light"'>®</span></font></sup><b><font
size=2 color="#4d4d4d" face="GillSans Light"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"GillSans Light";color:#4D4D4D;font-weight:bold'> AP<br>
Mechanical Engineer</span></font></b><strong><b><font size=2
face="GillSans Light"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"GillSans Light"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></strong></p>
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<p><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [<a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Grando, John<br>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 03:08 PM<br>
To: James Hansen; Marcus Eliason; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</st1:PersonName><br>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] eQuest - FCU with DOAS<br>
<br>
<br>
One further question that has been bothering me. How would you set up ERV
with the DOAS? I've seen some posts from the archives but none are too
clear. The return air temperature of the DOAS appears to be too low to
use an ERV on. Any suggestions?<br>
<br>
<br>
John Grando LEED AP<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: James Hansen [<a href="mailto:JHANSEN@ghtltd.com">mailto:JHANSEN@ghtltd.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 11:16 AM<br>
To: Marcus Eliason; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</st1:PersonName><br>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] eQuest - FCU with DOAS<br>
<br>
I haven't had a chance to look at your .inp file, but when you are creating a
DOAS system, make sure that you at least do the following:<br>
<br>
1) Make sure the fan schedule is forced off at night and setback times.<br>
2) Make sure the throttling range for the dummy zone thermostat is at least 4
degrees (I usually use 6).<br>
3) Make sure that the heating/cooling schedules that the dummy zone follows are
set to something like 120 degrees cooling and 20 degrees heating after hours,
just to make sure that a call for heating/cooling doesn't show up in your
report, and mess up the unmet load hours.<br>
<br>
<br>
Just looked at your file: you need to specify some sort of minimum OA
control or minimum air schedule for the FCUs (I think). Right now nothing
shows up.<br>
<br>
Also, why is the DOAS system serving so many "dummy" zones? I
*think* your DOAS system is EL1 Sys1 (SZRH), yet it is serving 20+ zones.
I'm confused...<br>
<br>
GHT Limited<br>
James Hansen, PE, LEED AP<br>
Senior Associate<br>
<st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200</st1:address></st1:Street><br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Arlington</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">VA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">22201-4749</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
703-338-5754 (Cell)<br>
703-243-1200 (Office)<br>
703-276-1376 (Fax)<br>
www.ghtltd.com<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [<a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Marcus Eliason<br>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 11:04 AM<br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</st1:PersonName><br>
Subject: [Equest-users] eQuest - FCU with DOAS<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
I am trying to model a building with FCUs and a DOAS to deliver outdoor air to
the individual zones. I have put in the dummy zones for the DOAS system,
modeled as a single air handler with chilled and hot water coils. I have
changed the walls of the dummy zone to air walls, specified the DOAS to get OA
flow as sum of all zones and for the FCUs to get OA from the DOAS. When I
run the model, I get a lot of unmet hours corresponding to the dummy zones and
the DOAS system. I have tried but cannot seem to turn off the return air
path for the DOAS (since it is 100% OA) and have specified the minimum OA
fraction for the DOAS as 1. I am not sure if the unmet hours means that
my DOAS is not adequately cooling the OA load or if it something else.<br>
Also, my "pump & aux" energy in the model seems very high for a
building that only has 3 pumps. Can someone familiar with modeling DOAS
shed any light on what might be causing some of these problems. I have
attached the .inp and .pd2 files for reference.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Marcus Eliason<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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