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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>We had this same situation on
our projects, and one in particular that used chilled water FCU’s, but
with an ERU DOAS doing the outside air.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>We modeled the ERU DOAS
separately in a detailed model/custom spreadsheet workbook we created (with
help of VBA code) that could run hourly calcs on a full set of TMY3 weather
data.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>We will be submitting this soon
as exceptional calc as part of LEED submission.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>As far as exhaust air
conditions, I just assumed exhaust air conditions typically found in facilities
(i.e. 75 F, 50% RH in summer, 70 F, 40% RH in winter). I think that is a very
reasonable assumption.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I think this is the approach we
will have to take until the DOAS ERU model arrives in eQuest, which I hope is
soon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The spreadsheet developed will
serve us well because I’m also using it to quantify electrical demand
savings for a local utility energy efficiency incentive program (i.e. peak
demand reduction during summer months).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>My challenge is modifying the
spreadsheet to accommodate more complex ERU arrangements such as the Trane CDQ
unit or the Semco Pinnacle unit, both with low temp dessicants that deliver low
dewpoint area to building. Currently scratching my head over how to model
these, which wouldn’t be a problem, except that they are showing up on
our projects … </span><span style='font-family:Wingdings;
color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black'>JAH<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#00B050'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#00B050'>James A. Hess, PE, CEM</span></i></b><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#00B050'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>Senior Energy Engineer</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>TME, Inc.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>Little Rock, AR</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>ph 501-666-6776</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>cell 501-351-4667</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:blue'><a href="mailto:email@tmecorp.com">jhess@tmecorp.com</a></span></u><u><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></u></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Eric
O'Neill<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Everhart; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Dedicated Outside Air Unit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi David,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’ve been looking for a
solution to this for a while. Modeling a DOAS using the dummy zone (set all
walls to adiabatic, or with a u-value of 0.00001) is one thing, and can be done
pretty easily. All your zones can get their OA from that zone. There’s
plenty of posts in the <a
href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/">archive</a>
for this (search for dummy zones), so I’ll leave it there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The trouble is, unless I’m
missing something, you can’t route the exhaust air back to the DOAS, so
your ERV won’t model correctly. I’ve resorted to creating an hourly
report and calculating the additional ERV savings, minus additional fan and
motor losses. It’s certainly not ideal, and I haven’t tried it on a
LEED project yet, so I can’t speak to the acceptability to the USGBC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I had taken an eQuest training
class, maybe 1.5 years ago, and the instructor had mentioned the developers
were currently working on developing a DOAS system for eQuest and they hoped to
release it within a few months, but nothing yet. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>If anyone has found a way to get
this working properly, or has any updates on the development in eQuest (is it
in the forthcoming 3.64?), that would be great to know. It’s frustrating,
because it is certainly only going to be more prevalent in the future.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Eric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David
Everhart<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Dedicated Outside Air Unit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>I have a school which will be
served by ground source heat pumps. Outside air will be provided to the
classrooms with a Dedicated Outside Air Unit/ ERV with a VAV fan which operates
based on CO2 sensors within the spaces. The heat pumps won’t have
any outside air provided to them.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>My question is what’s the
best way to model this? Since you can’t apply more than one HVAC
system to a particular space, do I create a fake space and apply the outside
air unit/ERV to that? If so, how do I model the fake space such that
there is no heat loss and only people to require outside air?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>I tried to just model the dedicated
outside air system by way of the heat pumps, but I run into problems when
trying to specify when the dedicated outside air unit would operate. I
would want it to operate independently from just when the heat pump is
operating and I can’t find a way to do this.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Has anyone had any luck modeling
something similar to this?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";color:#0070C0'>David B. Everhart, P.E.
LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";color:#0070C0'>Latimer, Sommers and
Associates, P.A</span></i></b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";color:#0070C0'>.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";color:#595959'>3639 SW Summerfield Dr.,
Suite A<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";color:#595959'>Topeka, KS 66614<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";color:#595959'>p. 785.233.3232<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";color:#595959'>f. 785.233.0647<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";color:#595959'><a
href="mailto:deverhart@lsapa.com">deverhart@lsapa.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
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