<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV>Reniel:</DIV>
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<DIV>The EIR input is at full load.</DIV>
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<DIV>To answer your other question, here is the text from the Online DOE-2 Help menu in eQuest, which speaks so much better than I:</DIV>
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<H3><A name=_Toc226181877></A><A name=_Ref536242918>Rated vs. Design Conditions<A name=_Toc226181877></A></A></H3>
<P class=MsoBodyText>The program allows chillers to be specified at either the:</P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; tab-stops: 36.0pt" class=MsoBodyText> <U>Rated conditions </U>– as specified by ARI or other rating organizations. For all chiller types, ARI rates the evaporator conditions as 54°F entering and 44°F leaving chilled water (which corresponds to 2.4 gpm/ton). For water-cooled chillers, the condenser conditions are 85°F entering condenser water at a flow of 3 gpm/ton. Air-cooled chillers are rated at 95°F entering outdoor drybulb temperature. Chillers with remote condensers, are rated at 125°F saturated-condensing temperature.</P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; tab-stops: 36.0pt" class=MsoBodyText> <U>Design conditions</U> – the actual conditions at which the chiller is sized and designed to operate. </P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>When specifying a chiller, it is important to distinguish whether the stated chiller performance (capacity and energy consumption) are defined at the rated or actual conditions. Most chiller types can be specified at either the ARI rated conditions, or the actual design conditions. However, for centrifugal chillers, it may not make sense to specify performance at the ARI rated conditions, as the chiller <I>may not be able to actually operate at those conditions</I>. </P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>For example, consider a water-cooled centrifugal chiller serving a building in a relatively cool, dry climate. The engineer specifies the chiller capacity and efficiency at 46°F leaving chilled water and 76°F entering condenser water. To achieve the specified efficiency at minimum cost, assume the chiller manufacturer configures the the impeller and heat-exchangers to exactly meet the design conditions. If this chiller is then operated at the more extreme ARI conditions of 44°F/85°F, the compressor may not be able to overcome the pressure differential between the evaporator and condenser, and the chiller will surge if it tries to deliver water at 44°F. To operate successfully at 85°F entering condenser water, it will have to deliver water warmer than 44°F.</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>For this reason, the program defaults assume that centrifugal chillers are specified at the design conditions. All other chiller types are assumed to be specified at the rated conditions, unless you specify otherwise.</P>
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<P class=MsoBodyText>So I THINK if you specify ARI conditions and ran the chiller in your climatic condition, it would be a correct simulation.</P>
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<P class=MsoBodyText>Others input please...</P>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><A name=_MailAutoSig><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast; mso-no-proof: yes"><FONT face=Calibri>John R. Aulbach, PE, CEM<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></A></P>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> reniel barroso <renielbarroso@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thu, February 11, 2010 2:21:27 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Equest-users] Modeling Chiller Efficiency<BR></FONT><BR>
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<DIV>To eQuest users,<BR><BR>Only EIR is required for the chiller efficiency input.<BR>This can be converted easily to COP from which most of the manufacturers specify this on their cut sheets/catalogues to get the EIR.<BR>Questions are:<BR><BR>1. What is this COP/EIR input in eQuest?<BR> Is this for Full Load or Partial Load?<BR><BR>2. Does anybody know how to convert the ASHRAE Chiller's ARI Condition listed in ASHRAE 90.1 to our weather condition here in Dubai?<BR>Or is there a formula in converting the ARI Condition to the local weather where the project will be built?<BR><BR>Any related help from their own experience will be helpful.<BR>Thanks in advance<BR><BR><BR>Reniel<BR><BR></DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org" <equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, February 10, 2010 23:16:38<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Equest-users Digest, Vol 23, Issue 16<BR></FONT><BR>Send Equest-users mailing list submissions to<BR> <A href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR><BR>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org<BR><BR>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR> <A
href="mailto:equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR><BR>You can reach the person managing the list at<BR> <A href="mailto:equest-users-owner@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users-owner@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-owner@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR><BR>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>than "Re: Contents of Equest-users digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's Topics:<BR><BR> 1. Re: Circulation Loop Warnings (Shaun Martin)<BR> 2. Re: Hrs exceeding throttling range on T24 baseline<BR> (Sundharam, Premnath)<BR><BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 1<BR>Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:14:30 -0800<BR>From: "Shaun Martin" <<A
href="mailto:smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com">smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com</A>><BR>To: "'Katie Tuttle'" <<A href="mailto:Katie.Tuttle@hei-eng.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Katie.Tuttle@hei-eng.com">Katie.Tuttle@hei-eng.com</A>>,<BR> <<A href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A>><BR>Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Circulation Loop Warnings<BR>Message-ID: <CF0A26C4519A450CADAF753921C1BBA9@Shaun><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR><BR>The CURINV warnings you see are mostly related to pumps. What equest does<BR>with its pump and loop calculations is a mystery and a bit of a joke (I<BR>frequently see autosized flow rates 5 to 10 times the design). Chances are,<BR>if you
specify kW, flow and head together, you'll end up seeing the errors<BR>you are getting here. Start with just the pump kW. Add head if eQuest<BR>complains. You'll have to enter the head that the program calculates or,<BR>again, you'll get more warnings.<BR><BR>Shaun Martin LEED AP<BR>Principal<BR>Shaun Martin Consulting<BR>Suite 200 - 420 West Hastings Street<BR>Vancouver, BC V6B 1L1<BR><BR>c: 604-789-1095<BR><BR>e:<A href="mailto:smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com">smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com</A><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> _____ <BR><BR>From: <A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR>[mailto:<A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>] On Behalf Of Katie<BR>Tuttle<BR>Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:29 AM<BR>To: <A href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR>Subject: [Equest-users] Circulation Loop Warnings<BR><BR><BR><BR>Has anyone been able to resolve warnings that occur with circulation loops?<BR>Please see attached for simulation warnings.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Katie <BR><BR>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and<BR><BR>are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom<BR><BR>they are addressed. This communication represents the originator's<BR><BR>personal views and opinions, which do not necessarily reflect those of<BR><BR>Henderson Engineers, Inc. If you are not the original
recipient or the<BR><BR>person responsible for delivering the email to the intended recipient,<BR><BR>be advised that you have received this email in error, and that any use,<BR><BR>dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is strictly<BR><BR>prohibited. If you received this email in error, please immediately<BR><BR>notify <A href="mailto:administrator@hei-eng.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:administrator@hei-eng.com">administrator@hei-eng.com</A>.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>-------------- next part --------------<BR>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20100210/ef46b233/attachment-0001.htm><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 2<BR>Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:16:00 -0600<BR>From: "Sundharam, Premnath" <<A href="mailto:psundharam@DLRGROUP.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:psundharam@DLRGROUP.com">psundharam@DLRGROUP.com</A>><BR>To: "Hwakong Cheng" <<A href="mailto:hwakong@hotmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:hwakong@hotmail.com">hwakong@hotmail.com</A>>,<BR> <<A href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A>><BR>Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Hrs exceeding throttling range on T24<BR> baseline<BR>Message-ID:<BR> <<A href="mailto:175AB2D86809FE429E67032E0D05DC59010147FD@dlremail.dlrgroup.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:175AB2D86809FE429E67032E0D05DC59010147FD@dlremail.dlrgroup.com">175AB2D86809FE429E67032E0D05DC59010147FD@dlremail.dlrgroup.com</A>><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR><BR>Hey Hwakong,<BR><BR>Thanks for the response.... I realized the hard way that the
capacities<BR>doesn't matter.... <BR><BR>Our system does not have any preheat or reheat coils. The proposed is a<BR>SZRH that is connected to CHW and HW Loop (This is in essence to<BR>simulate a THREE Deck Multi Zone System). T24 Standard system for this<BR>zone is PSZ.<BR><BR>There are both heating and cooling unmet load hrs, but on one zone the<BR>heating unmet load hrs is 1300 and the rest of the zone are minor. This<BR>single handedly is what is probably causing the problem.<BR><BR><BR><BR>This zone is similar to many other zones in use, geometry and so on and<BR>except for this one every other zone of similar nature functions<BR>perfectly well....<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>The same zone on the T24 Proposed appears perfectly normal.... See image<BR>below....<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>So again, T24 standard uses a PSZ and the T24 Proposed uses a SZRH....<BR>It is impossible for a zone to have a minimum temp at -57.8 F in May in<BR>San
Diego...... the T24 Standard is doing something wrong! I tried many<BR>things, like increasing the Hot Water Entering Zone temp., deleting the<BR>system for this zone and re-assigning to a new system.... Nothing seems<BR>to solve the problem....<BR><BR><BR><BR>Any help would again be greatly appreciated....<BR><BR>Thanks<BR><BR>Prem<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>From: Hwakong Cheng [mailto:<A href="mailto:hwakong@hotmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:hwakong@hotmail.com">hwakong@hotmail.com</A>] <BR>Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:59 AM<BR>To: Sundharam, Premnath<BR>Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Hrs exceeding throttling range on T24<BR>baseline<BR><BR><BR><BR>In my experience, insufficient capacity in primary equipment (chillers,<BR>towers, fans, etc) is seldom the cause of hours out of throttling range.<BR>I would look more at reheat capacities, presence/absence of preheat<BR>coil, presence/absence of reheat coils, and other control
issues. These<BR>are not autosized by eQUEST - for example, sizing the reheat coil<BR>capacity is done in DOE-2 by specifying the reheat delta T. Sometimes<BR>there are different system types between the proposed and standard<BR>models that can cause differences in unmet load hours between the two.<BR>Are your hours out of throttling due to insufficient cooling,<BR>insufficient heating, or both? Is it one zone or many? You probably need<BR>to review the detailed and hourly reports for the standard model to<BR>understand what's not working right in that run... and then figure out a<BR>way to fix that in the original model. <BR><BR>We always see low heating energy in our T-24 proposed runs. We think<BR>it's an artifact of eQUEST rather than a reflection of reality. <BR><BR><BR>________________________________<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:11:24 -0600<BR>From: <A href="mailto:psundharam@DLRGROUP.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:psundharam@DLRGROUP.com">psundharam@DLRGROUP.com</A><BR>To: <A href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR>Subject: [Equest-users] Hrs exceeding throttling range on T24 baseline<BR><BR>Hello All,<BR><BR><BR><BR>I am doing a Title 24 Compliance through eQuest and I am just trying to<BR>do a reality check to see if the model is performing correct.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Based on the T24 proposed and standard output files, it appears that the<BR>T24 standard building has 17.6% outside of throttling range, where as<BR>the T24 proposed has only 0.4% outside of throttling range.<BR><BR>One thing I don't understand is, if the program calculates its own<BR>capacities, then how could T24 standard have such a huge unmet load<BR>hours.<BR><BR>Anyways, is there a way to fix the T24 standards unmet load hours even<BR>though the model
complies with T24?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Also another question.... How do I check the heating capacity of the<BR>system designed in Btu per sf in the output files... we typically see<BR>around 20 Btu per sf as the heating capacity required in Phoenix...<BR>assuming similar condition in inland San Diego... I wanted to check the<BR>heating consumption against capacity, the program is showing a really<BR>low heating need in San Diego which I seriously doubt... see attached<BR>compliance report...<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Any help would be greatly appreciated.<BR><BR>Thanks<BR><BR>Prem<BR><BR><BR><BR>Premnath Sundharam, Assoc. AIA, LEED AP<BR><BR>Architectural Designer | Senior Associate<BR><BR><A href="mailto:psundharam@dlrgroup.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:psundharam@dlrgroup.com">psundharam@dlrgroup.com</A><BR><BR>DLR Group<BR><BR>Architecture Engineering Planning Interiors<BR><BR>o:
602/381-8580<BR>6225 North 24th Street, Suite 250 Phoenix, AZ 85016-2020<BR><A href="http://dlrgroup.com/" target=_blank>dlrgroup.com</A> <http://www.dlrgroup.com/> | listen.DESIGN.deliver<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________<BR><BR>Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.<BR><http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/> <BR><BR>-------------- next part --------------<BR>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20100210/44c223e9/attachment.htm><BR>-------------- next part --------------<BR>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<BR>Name: not available<BR>Type: image/jpeg<BR>Size: 85055 bytes<BR>Desc: image007.jpg<BR>URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20100210/44c223e9/attachment.jpeg><BR>-------------- next part
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