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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Sorry to rehash this but I’ve been going through the
baseline fan power, and still don’t have the answers I need.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’ve got a 113,000 cfm (from the SV-A System Design
Parameters report) VAVR system on my baseline that when I go through all the
calculations for ASHRAE 90.1-2007 (from Table G3.1.2.9, Table 6.5.3.1.1a and b)
I get 176.13 bhp. I put that in the wizard entry for BHP for the
VAVR system and don’t get any errors, BUT when I put in the bhp that I
solved for the packaged multi-zone AHU’s that will be used in the
building also (92,000 cfm, 153.88 bhp), using the same calculations, it gives
me an error that the static is at 56 in w.c., and it needs to be below
15. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What’s going on? Also, if you use the equations from
Table 6.5.3.1.1a and b, then the break horsepower is higher than the allowable
nameplate hp. Isn’t that backwards?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>-Jason<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul
Erickson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> ron lamarre; Matthew Higgins<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Appendix G Fan Simulation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ron, to comment on your statement, “</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I believe that
the kW/CFM is based on the Baseline BHP and Baseline Fan Power formula in
ASHRAE 90.1-2004 G3.2.1.9. The CFM is the total building CFM”,
90.1-2007 makes it the most clear that the CFM is actually ONLY the
Baseline’s peak SUPPLY CFM. The same is true for 90.1-2004,
it’s just not very clear. However the reviewers do know that this
is true and have most recently been asking for a demonstration of calculation
methodology.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Paul</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#5F5F5F'>Paul Erickson LEED AP</span></b><b><span style='font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></b><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#5F5F5F'>Sustainable</span></b><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
color:#5F5F5F'> </span></b><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:maroon'><a
href="http://www.aeieng.com/" title="http://www.aeieng.com/"><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:maroon;text-decoration:none'>Affiliated
Engineers, Inc.</span><span style='color:maroon;text-decoration:none'> </span></a></span></b><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'> </span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#5F5F5F'>5802 Research
Park Blvd.</span><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;color:maroon'>| </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#5F5F5F'>Madison,</span><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#5F5F5F'>WI
53719</span><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;color:maroon'>| </span><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#5F5F5F'>P</span></b><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#5F5F5F'>608.236.1112
</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:maroon'>| </span><b><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#5F5F5F'>F</span></b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:#5F5F5F'> 608.238.2614 </span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#5F5F5F'><a
href="mailto:perickson@aeieng.com"><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#5F5F5F;text-decoration:none'>perickson@aeieng.com</span></a> </span><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:maroon'>| </span><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F'>www.aeieng.com</span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ron
lamarre<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 18, 2009 11:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Matthew Higgins<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Appendix G Fan Simulation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi
to all:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
believe that the kW/CFM is based on the Baseline BHP and Baseline Fan
Power formula in ASHRAE 90.1-2004 G3.2.1.9. The CFM is the total building
CFM; see the air-side summary report for the total bulding CFM. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To
get the correct total building CFM, set the Baseline supply-air-to-room-air at
a 20-degree F differential. For instance, if your summer (cooling)
set-point temp = 75 degreesF, then the cooling supply air temp from the
unit is 55-degree F. If your winter (heating) set-point temp is 70-degree
F, then your heating supply air temp from the unit is 90-degree F.
Run a simulation and eQUEST will determine the CFM for each system based on
this differential; then balance the systems to be under the 300 unmet
hours limit. Then open the air-side summary report to see the
total CFM of all your systems. Use that total CFM in the BHP and Baseline
Fan Power calculations under G3.2.1.9. To use the formulas, you need to
use a calculator with a "natural log" button and an "e"
button for the energy constant (e=1.28....just like "pie" =
3.14).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>For
a Baseline Type 3 PSZ System, the fan power should be in the neighborhood of
0.0007; this may be why GBCI questioned your result. Then assign
this fan power to each baseline PSZ system in your building and re-run the
simulation. Include the formula in the LEED submittal template or
narrative to demonstrate how its calculated; as well as including the Air-side
Summary Report. GBCI will see both the total baseline CFM and the
baseline fan power calculations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
Proposed conditions are the proposed set-points, proposed supply air temps, and
proposed kW/CFM for each system as designed. If the RTU fans run
continuously during occupancy periods, separate the supply air fan power, which
is the kW to use, from the RTU power. This allows design teams to
take credit for using high efficient HVAC systems (low kW/CFM).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hope
this helps.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Ron
Lamarre, AIA, NCARB</span></strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Architect
- <strong><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>LEED AP</span></strong></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Matthew Higgins
<higgins@edi-arch.com><br>
<b>To:</b> "Equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
<Equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org>; BLDG SIM <bldg-sim@gard.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:12:10 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Appendix G Fan Simulation<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
I've seen multiple posts regarding 2004 Appendix G Fan Power and one post from
Ming Zeng suggested the following:<br>
"Baseline model fan usually gives 0.00078KW/cfm. For proposed fans,
typically it is 0.00016-0.00018 KW/cfm/in static*"*<br>
<br>
I have two problems related to this because my Baseline KW/cfm is closer to
0.001 KW/cfm for a bunch of unitary Type-3 systems, which is indefinitely way
too high.<br>
<br>
FIRST<br>
Many people have referred to the calculated fan power as an allowance, which to
me, would appear to be a threshold not to exceed based on the 20deg-F delta for
Appendix G Fan Sizing. I figure this is not the case because others refer to
the fan power as something that is simulated in the model as a KW/cfm.<br>
I've also seen posts where numbers are expressed as KW/kcfm, which would
indicate fan power KW per thousand cfm; which again is not an applicable figure
for simulation using eQuest.<br>
<br>
SECOND<br>
I'm struggling with these items because a recent GBCI reviewer has asked me to
re-calculate my fan power because my BHPs are a bit higher than they should be.
When I "re-calculate" these values I do not come up with the numbers
they do (BHP ASHRAE - attached).<br>
<br>
I'm trying to reconcile my response and eQuest inputs before we re-submit, but
I'm not sure what to do.<br>
<br>
Much thanks.<br>
<br>
-- Matthew Higgins, LEED AP + ASHRAE-HBDP<br>
Environmental Dynamics, Inc.<br>
Architecture and Sustainability Consulting Services<br>
505.242.2851 x.103<br>
<br>
Any data provided by the Consultant, verbal or written, are to be considered opinions
of building energy and/or daylight performance. The Client understands that the
Consultant has no control of occupant habits, equipment or material performance
or characteristics, site or climate conditions or the Contractor's method of
assembly, and that the Consultant's opinions regarding building energy/daylight
performance are made on the basis of the Consultant's professional judgment and
experience. The Consultant makes no warranty, express or implied, that the
energy/daylight performance of the building will not vary from the Consultant's
opinion of building energy/daylight performance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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