<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Just wanted to clarify something that could possibly be mis-understood
from Nick's post below, when he states "eQuest will recognize two
planes are on top of each other and default each to be adiabatic or
partially adiabatic".<br>
Also please note that what Nick stated is by no means incorrect - I
just
felt compelled to clarify some details here that are not broadly
understood.<br>
<br>
Two important points on this topic:<br>
(1) The recognition of coincident walls works only for vertical walls
(side-by-side shells), NOT horizontal walls (shells stacked on top of
each other). When shells in the wizard are placed side-by-side, then
eQUEST can detect this wall coincidence and when generating the
detailed building model will utilize interior, adiabatic walls wherever
the shells are adjoining. However, there is no such roof/floor wall
coincidence intelligence for wizard shells stacked on top of each
other. IN these cases the user should make sure that the Ground Floor
construction of the upper shell is set to "Over Conditioned Space
(adiabatic)" and the Roof Construction is set to "No Exterior Exposure
(adiabatic)".<br>
<br>
(2) This vertical wall coincidence checking mechanism lies within the
wizard database and defaulting mechanism and is used to populate the
detailed (DOE-2) model in such a way as to ensure proper model of
side-by-side shells. No such vertical wall coincidence checking exists
when creating (the equivalent of) side-by-side shells in the detailed
interface. When creating such walls in the detailed interface, the
user must indicate wall exposure by creating either exterior or
interior (adiabatic or thermally conductive) walls.<br>
<br>
Lastly - our team would like to thank Nick (and many others as well)
for his contributions to this and the Bldg-Sim e-mail lists. His
detailed and accurate explanations are very beneficial to the eQUEST
& building simulation community at large.<br>
<br>
- Scott<br>
<br>
<br>
Nick Caton wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:FCEBC0C28321F7479789B25A13030F69E7BE52@sandbinc2.sbi.smithboucher.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Stylus BT";
panose-1:2 14 4 2 2 2 6 2 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Century Gothic";
panose-1:2 11 5 2 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Mistral;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="2050" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Happy to
help – I’ll
point out further that the important thing when modeling varying roof
heights /
monitors using the “cutting method” (and that is a term I just made
up so don’t search for that explicitly), to save yourself some time, is
to match vertices when defining the separate shells. In doing so,
eQuest
will recognize two planes are on top of each other and default each to
be
adiabatic or partially adiabatic. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This is
good because on one
level you won’t accidentally end up with a lot more exterior wall than
you should have. On a further level, it will save you some time later
in identifying
which walls need to be tied to adjacent zones (the adiabatic walls will
stand
out in spreadsheet view), if you decide you want to more accurately
account for
thermal behavior between the monitor zone(s) and the surroundings by
defining “Next
to Space…”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Also,
flattery will get you
nowhere, but thanks for the model compliment ;).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Cheers!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img
id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:part1.06010604.05030603@gmail.com"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" height="37" width="119"></span><b><span
style="font-family: "Stylus BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family: "Stylus BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family: "Stylus BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK
CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Stylus BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">25501 west
valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">direct 913
344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">fax 913
345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">Check out
our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;"> </span></u><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> Smith,
Aaron
Matthew [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:SMITHA11@rpi.edu">mailto:SMITHA11@rpi.edu</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Roof monitor "Open to Below"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks
Nick, this looks exactly
like what I want to accomplish. I will look up the “cutting lines”
strategy and see if I can implement it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Also
thank you for sharing the
images of your nice looking model.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Aaron<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> Nick
Caton
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Smith, Aaron Matthew; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Roof monitor "Open to Below"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think
you’ve identified
the root of your problem – I’m unsure that there’s any way to
get light in one shell to transmit to another.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Attached
and below is an example
of a project with a lot of roof monitors that does successfully measure
and
account for daylighting in those spaces. A picture speaks a
thousand words, so see if this matches what you were thinking to
accomplish. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Each
monitor is a single zone
and shell (i.e. no plenum zone). Sensors are located either on the
floor
or at a desk height, as appropriate to the space usage. Creating the
shell that “wraps” around the monitors is done by using
“cutting lines” in the footprint/zoning pattern – you can
read up on that strategy by searching the archives for how courtyards
are
modeled. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’ll
point out, in terms
of accuracy, I have the impression that eQuest’s daylight sensors do
not
accurately realize the full amount of light that should be encountered
with light
shelves, light tubes, or other means of interreflected daylight, based
on my
comparative daylight analyses using AGI32 (which I’ve learned to use
accurately for daylight modeling). The DOE2 help files I think also
allude to this – It’s something to keep in mind if you have a lot
of monitor overhangs, again as with the example below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family: "Stylus BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family: "Stylus BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img
id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:part1.06010604.05030603@gmail.com"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" border="0" height="37" width="119"></span><b><span
style="font-family: "Stylus BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family: "Stylus BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family: "Stylus BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK
CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Stylus BT","sans-serif"; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">25501 west
valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">direct 913
344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">fax 913
345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">Check out
our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;"> </span></u><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Smith,
Aaron Matthew<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Roof monitor "Open to Below"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello E-quest group,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am working on ways to implement Equest in my
workflow for
the purpose of daylighting design evaluation, and I am having trouble
implementing a roof monitor. I have read the help files that describe
the
limitations of Equest to perform daylighting calculations, but I have
also seen
that some people have been able to implement multilevel atriums and I
have seen
one application of a roof monitor. Anyways I want to give it a go
before I
start programming in Daylight Factors. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Attached is an example building I would like to
be able to
evaluate. My evaluation goal is to put a light meter on the bottom zone
under
the monitor and see what results pop out in the detailed daylighting
summary
reports (LS-G, LS-J, ect.) I would like to compare Equest results to
the
results of other software/calculations/measurements I am investigating,
however
it seems that no light from the roof monitor is making it to the bottom
zone.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The bottom shell is all one zone and the top is
all one
zone. I have found that it is necessary that the bottom zone have
windows or
else no daylighting dialog screen shows up in the DD wizard, and that
means no light
meter. At first I tried to make the top zone “open to below” and
then in the detailed edit mode moved the light meter under the monitor,
but the
results do not indicate any light is making it from the roof monitor to
the
bottom zone.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I was hoping some of you might have some
suggestions to help
implement this roof monitor setup.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Aaron<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: Mistral;">Aaron
Smith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic","sans-serif";">Sr.
Research Specialist<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic","sans-serif";"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:smitha11@rpi.edu">smitha11@rpi.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic","sans-serif";"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic","sans-serif";">Lighting
Research Center<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic","sans-serif";">21
Union Street<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic","sans-serif";">Troy,
NY 12180<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic","sans-serif";">p.
518.687.7167<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic","sans-serif";">f.
518.687.7120<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________
Equest-users mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a>
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>