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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Sheri,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>After reading the subtext of
this message chain, what I think you’re trying to accomplish is not possible in
the wizard (multiple exterior wall constructions with inter-zone heat transfer).
I’m sure this undermines all the work you’ve done thus far, but you’ll save
quite a bit of time and have a much better project by adjusting the exterior
wall constructions in the detailed interface rather than creating a new shell
for each construction. Let me explain and comment on the message history: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>eQUEST will create <u>adiabatic</u>
interior walls between two adjacent shells if the shell coordinates line up
along a common plane. Therefore, if the end goal of creating multiple shells
is to account for inter-shell heat transfer and have multiple exterior wall
constructions, some use of the detailed interface is required. You will have
to adjust either the interior walls (from adiabatic to standard) or the
exterior wall constructions in the detailed interface. It is by far faster to
adjust the exterior wall constructions. If you opt to change the interior
walls from adiabatic to standard, you’ll be prompted for the adjacent zone for
each wall. If you have three shells per floor, it sounds like you’ll need to create
a spreadsheet or rename all zones in all shells to something more identifiable
than “EL1 East Perim Zn (G.E2)”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>In the wizard, when a
zone is created that is partially exterior and partially adjacent to another
shell, the walls along the plane of intersection will be broken up between interior
and exterior walls according to what’s on the other side. Where the two zones
in separate shells touch, each zone will be assigned an adiabatic interior wall
as mentioned above.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Per Jim’s example
below, for any wall that is drawn in the wizard but does not touch the building
footprint or another zone, an adiabatic interior wall will be assigned. The
wall is basically there to soothe the user – eQUEST couldn’t care less if the
wall is adiabatic or not there at all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>By definition, an
interior wall (adiabatic or standard) will never communicate thermally with the
exterior. For what Nick described below to occur, one would have to use the
detailed interface to manually assign an interior wall construction to a wall
that is defined as exterior. The conversation has mixed the concepts of wall
type and construction – these are separate properties. Wall type dictates where
heat is transferred, construction simply dictates the rate and delay (thermal
massing).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Also by definition,
an exterior wall will never communicate thermally between two zones; it can
only transfer thermal energy between its parent zone and the exterior <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>I used the
tons-of-shells approach on my first project and ended up with over 10 shells.
eQUEST would crash when I tried to run the simulation. What I didn’t quite
realize is that when you create a new shell, eQUEST is going to create new
occupancy, lighting, equipment, etc., schedules as well as new constructions
for all interior and exterior surfaces. True, each shell’s schedules and
constructions could have the same properties, but they are still viewed as
separate entities and add a lot of weight to your project file. At four or
five shells users will see a noticeable delay in opening, saving, and
simulating files. Done to extreme, the project becomes too cumbersome to simulate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>One can be assured
that time, complication, and frustration will be added to any project by trying
to do it all in the wizard.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in'><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>With regard to what you’ve
witnessed thus far, I would bet that there’s a conflict between the coordinates/reference
location a shell is given on Wizard Screen 1 and where that shell is actually drawn
on Screen 2 (assuming you’re tracing a CAD file). Where it did create an
internal wall, the common plane between Screen 1 and 2 jived. That’s about as
accurately as I can describe it in an email. Try creating two adjacent shells
in a test file using only site coordinates and aspect ratios and you’ll see
what I mean after inspecting the shells in the detailed interface.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>To bring this full-circle, it
will be faster and more accurate to create as few shells as possible in the
wizard and then use the detailed interface to create/assign additional wall
constructions. The most prevalent wall construction should be specified in the
wizard to reduce the number of changes in the detailed interface. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Regards,</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif";
color:black;text-transform:uppercase'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Book","sans-serif";
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Nick Caton
[mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 11, 2009 2:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Crockett, Jim; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Adjacent Shells<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I think the issue-at-hand here,
if I’m understanding correctly, is that there’s concern an internal wall
created by avoiding the footprint perimeter will simply use the defined
internal wall construction and transfer to/from the outside… I’m not certain (and
I haven’t tested this) that you want to answer “don’t care” without verifying
this isn’t the modeled behavior.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=119
height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CA6393.0D7FEBB0"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west
valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913
344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913
345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Check out
our new web-site @ </span></i><span style='color:#1F497D'><a
href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Crockett,
Jim<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Aulbach; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Adjacent Shells<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Not sure. But if the set point on both sides of the wall is
the same, the heat transfer will be negligible. Short answer is ‘don’t
care.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John Aulbach
[mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Crockett, Jim; Rocha, Sheri; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Adjacent Shells</span><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jim:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Will you get the internal heat ransfer between these walls?
Or will you care?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>John R. Aulbach, PE, CEM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Senior Energy
Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#17365D'>
<hr size=2 width="30%" noshade style='color:#17365D' align=left>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-variant:small-caps;color:navy'>Partner</span><span
style='font-variant:small-caps;color:green'> </span><span style='font-variant:
small-caps;color:#006600'>Energy</span><span style='font-variant:small-caps;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>1990 E. Grand Avenue, El
Segundo, CA 90245</span><br>
<span style='color:#1F497D'>W: 888-826-1216, X254| D: 310-765-7295 | F:
310-817-2745<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.ptrenergy.com/">www.ptrenergy.com</a><span
style='color:#1F497D'> <a href="mailto:%7C%20jaulbach@ptrenergy.com">|
jaulbach@ptrenergy.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> "Crockett, Jim"
<Jcrockett@nexant.com><br>
<b>To:</b> "Rocha, Sheri" <srocha@mkkeng.com>;
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wed, November 11, 2009 9:28:33 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Adjacent Shells</span><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>We accidentally stumbled onto a way of doing this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>If the walls on the zoning tab do not line up with the walls on the
shell tab, they will show up as internal walls.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Example 1</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Shell:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>(0,0) (100,0) (100,100) (0,100)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Zone:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>(1,1) (99,1) (99,99) (1,99)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>This will create a zone surrounded by 4 internal walls.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Example 2</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Shell:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>(0,0) (100,0) (100,100) (0,100)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Zone:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>(1,0) (99,0) (99,99) (1,99)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Will create a zone with 1 external wall ( on the south side) and 3
internal walls.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Hope this helps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Jim</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rocha,
Sheri<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Adjacent Shells</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I am modeling a building with multiple wall types therefore
I have 3 shells per floor. I am trying to figure out how to have the
adjacent walls between shells be modeled as interior instead of exterior.
In one of spot they came out as interior, but I am not sure how I did it.
I am trying to do as much in the wizard as possible. Does anyone
know how to do this??<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for your help.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:blue'>Sheri Rocha, P.E.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Comic Sans MS"'>, </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#007A37'>LEED<sup>TM </sup>AP</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'>Senior
Mechanical Engineer</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><a
href="mailto:srocha@mkkeng.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>srocha@mkkeng.com</span></a></span><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> <br>
</span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'><a
href="http://www.mkkeng.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>www.mkkeng.com</span></a></span></u><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;
color:green'>P</span><span style='font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";
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<p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=109 height=75
id="Picture_x005f_x005f_x005f_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.jpg@01CA6393.0D7FEBB0"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>7600
E. Orchard Road</span> <br>
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