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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I think if you modeled an on-site
CHP system, the BEPS report should show roughly matching numbers for fuel
consumed by a generator.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>There may be a difference for
source-to-site natural gas based on transportation from the gas well, but it
shouldn’t include the 25% waste heat from the diagram – that occurs
on-site.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>A value from the EPA is 4.7% for
natural gas – so if eQuest used the same factor, I’d expect a CHP
installation (assuming 100% of electricity usage was generated on-site) to show
4.7% difference between site and source in the BEPS report.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>The link below will help explain:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><a
href="http://www.energystar.gov/ia/business/evaluate_performance/site_source.pdf">http://www.energystar.gov/ia/business/evaluate_performance/site_source.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>The 25% losses of unrecoverable waste
heat from the second diagram would be included in the on-site usage, and would
show up in both lines of the BEPS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:gray'>David Eldridge, PE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:gray'>LEED® AP, HBDP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'><br>
</span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:#365F91'>Grumman/Butkus Associates</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:gray'> | </span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#8DB3E2'>820 Davis Street, STE
300 | Evanston, IL 60201 | Ph: (847) 328-3555, ext 224 | Fax: (847) 328-4550</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:gray'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:gray'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:gray'>Energy Consultants and Design Engineers</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Vikram
Sami<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jackson, Alan; James Geers<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Total Site versus Total Source Energy BEPS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In essence Alan is correct. However – for electric energy
the largest losses are not the T&D losses (7.2% according to Wikipedia; 3%
according to the chart below from the DOE) , but the conversion losses at the
plant. So the site-source utilization is around 33%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=624 height=380 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CA5324.8383A010"
alt="Graphic showing the current U.S Electricity Consumption: Opportunity - Useful heat rejected/dumped to the environment. Energy consumed to generate electricity (100%/33.6 Quadrillion BTUs). Conversion losses are 66% (22.1 quads), Plant Use (.6 Quads), T&D Losses (1.0 Quads), Resource Utilization 33% (11.5 Quads), Residential (3.8 Quads), Commercial (3.2 Quads), Industrial (3.6 Quads), and other (.3 Quads). Centralized generation drawbacks: No opportunity to recover heat generated when converting fuel to electricity. Substantial losses in transmission/distribution of electricity - particularly during peak. Large plants and the grid are vulnerable to disruption."><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>For an on-site CH&P generator, you would still have some
losses – around 25% conversion loss, so the site-source utilization is
around 75%, so there should still be a discrepancy between the two. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=624 height=407 id="Picture_x0020_2"
src="cid:image002.jpg@01CA5324.8383A010"
alt="Graphic showing the Opportunity for Future U.S Energy Consumption - combined heat and power solution to recycling waste heat: distribute electricity generation to where waste heat can be recovered and put to us. Using this process, we can recover 42% of heat for domestic hot water, space heating, space cooing, and ventilation air and humidity control. 33% goes to generating electricity. Conversion losses are only 25%."><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-family:
"Garamond","serif";color:black'>Vikram Sami,</span></b><span style='color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>LEED AP</span><span
style='color:#1F497D'> <br>
</span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>Direct Phone
404-253-1466 | Direct Fax 404-253-1366</span><span style='color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-family:
"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'>L</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'>ORD</span></b><b><span
style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'>, A</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'>ECK</span></b><b><span
style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'> & S</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'>ARGENT</span></b><b><span
style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'> A</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'>RCHITECTURE</span></b><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jackson,
Alan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Geers<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Total Site versus Total Source Energy BEPS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The Site is your building model. Source takes in to account
losses and inefficiencies in delivery of energy from the source
“plant”, and hence reflects energy used at that source. If all
energy was on site, they should be equal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:15.0pt'><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Alan
Jackson, LEED AP<br>
KlingStubbins</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James
Geers<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Total Site versus Total Source Energy BEPS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=normal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>I have
noticed these two lines on my BEPS report. Which number accurately
reflects the energy consumption of my building? What is the difference
between the two? If all of my energy was generated on site would the
numbers be equal?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=normal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=normal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=normal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=normal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>TOTAL
SITE ENERGY 2517.74 MBTU
29.0 KBTU/SQFT-YR GROSS-AREA 29.0 KBTU/SQFT-YR NET-AREA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=normal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>TOTAL
SOURCE ENERGY 4867.80 MBTU 56.0
KBTU/SQFT-YR GROSS-AREA 56.0 KBTU/SQFT-YR NET-AREA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=normal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=normal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=normal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank
you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=normal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#595959'>JAMES F. GEERS | </span></b><b><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959'>ARCHITECT &
LEED AP</span></b><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#595959'>513.721.0600 (x107) - DIRECT </span><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#7F7F7F'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#9CB135'>SFA
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color:#9CB135'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:2.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#9CB135'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
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color:#595959'>CINCINNATI<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#595959'>300 WEST FOURTH STREET | CINCINNATI, OHIO
45202 | 513.721.0600 - OFFICE | 513.721.0611 - FAX<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:2.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#595959'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#595959'>DAYTON<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
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color:#595959'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#9CB135'><a
href="outbind://5-000000002A3AAC56F15D2E4D863C658A7EC1FD11C4022E00/www.sfa-architects.com"
title="blocked::www.sfa-architects.com"><span style='color:#9CB135'>WWW.SFA-ARCHITECTS.COM</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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