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<DIV dir=ltr id=idOWAReplyText37113>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>Lars,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>1) Sounds like it should be "unconditioned"
if you have no return air devices in the core zone. Specifying
unconditioned vs. plenum depends on whether or not you want eQUEST to
consider the zone to be a return air path for its parent system.
Plenum is like saying "I'm not conditioned but I do impact the return air
temperature" and unconditioned is like saying "I'm not conditioned and I have no
impact on supply or return air". From what you described, it's definitely
not conditioned.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>2) If the zone is unconditioned, the parent
system is irrelevant. However, a parent system must always be defined
for every zone per DOE2 protocol (no orphan zones, no orphan systems). If
it's a plenum, it should be assigned to the system to which the return air
goes. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>3) My understanding is that eQUEST doesn't
believe in passive exhaust between zones. Without seeing the dynamics
of the actual design, I would think you could just exhaust directly from the
office zone. I believe you're trying to account for 1) exhaust fan power
2) the exhaust's heat extraction from the office zone; exhausting directly from
the office zone would accomplish this. Whether the exhaust goes directly
outside or through a "middleman" zone isn't very important if the middleman zone
is unconditioned. So, I would argue that the core zone creates a low
pressure area that has to draw air from somewhere, and that somewhere is the
office zone. Yes, there's more of a delay involved with the indirect
method, but I wouldn't get too technical with it if we're only talking about a
couple hundred CFM. The biggest problem I see with what I've suggested is
if you're exhausting more than your OA CFM for the office zone. In that
case, the office zone's OA CFM will be increased to match the exhaust
CFM.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>On the other hand, if we're talking about a
big exhaust fan that is passively exhausting a lot of air from
multiple zones, you could take my suggestion and break it up so that you're
simulating smaller "direct" exhaust fans for the affected zones - just make
sure the individual fan powers & flows add up to the real fan's power &
flow.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Dakota Kelley</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Telios MEP Engineers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> Lars Fetzek
[mailto:lfetzek@phoenixeng.us]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tue 9/15/2009 3:07
PM<BR><B>To:</B> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>
[Equest-users] Routing exhaust air<BR></FONT><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT color=#000000 size=3><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN class=551334819-15092009><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>eQuesters,</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT color=#000000 size=3><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN
class=551334819-15092009></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT color=#000000 size=3><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN class=551334819-15092009> <FONT
color=#0000ff size=2>Some of you might recall the e-mails (below, but probably
not necessary to re-read) from early August. Since then, my problem
has simplified, but the solution is not so clear to
me.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT color=#000000 size=3><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN class=551334819-15092009> <FONT
color=#0000ff size=2>Basically, I have exhaust fans for a particular shell
located in a "core" zone made of restrooms and an electrical
room. No supply or return air devices exist in this core zone.
Rather, the core zone gets its air from transfer through doorways (and maybe one
passive transfer duct) from a large open office zone. (Note: Insofar
as the core zone does not have an HVAC system, per se, Vikram's excellent
previous answer seems inapplicable
now.)</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT color=#000000 size=3><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN class=551334819-15092009> <FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>Here are the questions:</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=551334819-15092009>1. When using eQuest, shall I deem the core zone
"unconditioned" or "plenum" or "conditioned"?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=551334819-15092009>2. What HVAC system, if any, shall I tell eQuest
that the core zone belongs to? Is there even a way, if appropriate, to
tell eQuest that a zone does not belong to an HVAC system?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=551334819-15092009>3. How can I explain to eQuest that the office
zone exhausts (passively) to the core zone, which then exhausts via fans to the
outside?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=551334819-15092009> Thank you all in advance for your
help - and to Vikram for his previous response.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=551334819-15092009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN class=551334819-15092009>Lars
Fetzek, EI</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=551334819-15092009>Phoenix Engineering Group</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN class=551334819-15092009>Tampa,
Florida</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=551334819-15092009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT color=#000000 size=3><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN
class=551334819-15092009></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT color=#000000 size=3><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN class=551334819-15092009> </SPAN>Lars,<BR><BR>Not sure if
this is what you're looking to do. I haven't tried this for<BR>a chain of more
than two zones, but you can specify the outside air<BR>coming from a particular
zone in eQUEST using the "OA-FROM-SYSTEM"<BR>keyword. You have to be careful
with this to define the OA system before<BR>the system it feeds (i.e. if system
1 has an OA-FROM system2, but system<BR>2 has not been defined yet in the INP
file, you will get an error. <BR><BR><BR><BR>Another thing to watch out for is
that when you use the OA-FROM, I don't<BR>think eQUEST calculates the cooling
effect of the ventilation air. You<BR>might have to trick the program into
accounting for that using an<BR>internal energy source (process) with a negative
value. This is easier<BR>with a constant volume OA supply, but if you really
want to you could<BR>write a schedule for the VAV supply - it's pretty tricky.
<BR><BR><BR><BR>Vikram Sami, LEED AP <BR>Direct Phone 404-253-1466 | Direct Fax
404-253-1366 <BR><BR>LORD, AECK & SARGENT
ARCHITECTURE<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>From: </FONT></FONT><A
title=http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
href=""><FONT
title=http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
size=3 face=Arial>equest-users-bounces at
lists.onebuilding.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT color=#000000 size=3
face=Arial>[mailto:</FONT><A
title=http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
href=""><FONT
title=http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
size=3 face=Arial>equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org</FONT></A><FONT
color=#000000 size=3 face=Arial>] On Behalf Of Lars<BR>Fetzek<BR>Sent: Monday,
August 10, 2009 9:47 AM<BR>To: </FONT><A
title=http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
href=""><FONT
title=http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
size=3 face=Arial>equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
color=#000000 size=3 face=Arial>Subject: [Equest-users] Exhaust air
routes<BR><BR><BR><BR>Hello,<BR><BR><BR><BR> The building
floor that I am presently modeling has several<BR>conditioned zones and two
unconditioned zones. The conditioned zones<BR>are various offices.
The unconditioned zones are restrooms and an<BR>electrical room. The
conditioned zones exhaust to each other and,<BR>ultimately, to the unconditioned
zones via hallways, doorways, etc. The<BR>unconditioned zones exhaust to
the outside (via fans).<BR><BR> How can I explain to eQuest
that, for example, conditioned zone A<BR>exhausts to conditioned zone B?
Also, how can I explain to eQuest that<BR>conditioned zone D exhausts X% to the
electrical room (and thus to<BR>outdoor exhaust fans) and Y% to conditioned zone
C?<BR><BR> In case it matters, the ceiling is open and the
return ductwork<BR>terminates in one spot. Accordingly, even return air
must flow among<BR>the conditioned zones.<BR><BR> Thanks, as
always, for your helpful replies.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Lars Fetzek, EI<BR><BR>Phoenix
Engineering Group<BR><BR>Tampa, Florida<BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> Lars Fetzek [mailto:lfetzek@phoenixeng.us]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:36 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Bach Tsan';
'equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Equest-users]
Input/Schedules/Unused parameters ;what is ok to delete?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=810563319-15092009><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Bach,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=810563319-15092009><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=810563319-15092009> <FONT
color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>Yes, I have. However, the technique is
beyond explanation. Just trial-and-error, using the DOE2-2 dictionary, and
gradually learning and torchering yourself will lead you to successful .inp
editing. Nobody can really teach or explain this.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=810563319-15092009><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=810563319-15092009><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Lars Fetzek, EI</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=810563319-15092009><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Phoenix Engineering Group</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=810563319-15092009><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Tampa, Florida</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Bach
Tsan<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:58 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Equest-users]
Input/Schedules/Unused parameters ;what is ok to delete?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal>Hello fellow equest users,</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>I was wondering if anyone has tried to clear out all unused
parameters prior to running the equest model?</P>
<P class=MsoNormal>I notice that the software “loads” all the schedules and
parameters; and if deleting them in the .inp file would speed things up. </P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>I tried it with a default sample model, but got various
errors since some items are required for the model to run. Has anyone generated
a script to run to clear all unnecessary items before running the model?</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Thanks</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Bach Tsan PE,
LEED AP</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P>
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