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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I am guessing that if the Bamboo is not produced on site, its
not really eligible for the on-site renewable energy credit. It’s (IMHO) analogous
to buying renewable energy credits from an off-site wind farm or solar farm and
taking credit for it as on-site generated. In reality, the fuel is not
generated on site, it is being used on site. The credit is for
production. . <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>But then again, I’m not the one reviewing this. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-family:
"Garamond","serif";color:black'>Vikram Sami,</span></b><span style='font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";
color:black'>LEED AP</span><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'> <br>
</span><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>Direct Phone 404-253-1466
| Direct Fax 404-253-1366</span><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'>L</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'>ORD</span></b><b><span
style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'>, A</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'>ECK</span></b><b><span
style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'> & S</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'>ARGENT</span></b><b><span
style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'> A</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:maroon'>RCHITECTURE</span></b><b><span
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<br>
</span></b><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>YinRic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 09, 2009 10:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> ncaton@smithboucher.com; Equest User<br>
<b>Cc:</b> rrosen@taitem.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Would cheaper fuel be credited?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Hi
All,<br>
<br>
I have got LEED v3. It is stated that the following biofuels are
considered renewable energy under EAc2 credit:<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Untreated
wood waste, including mill residues<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Agricultural
crops and waste<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Animal
waste and other organic waste<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Landfill
gas<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ul>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Energy
production based on the following biofuels are not eligible for this credit<br>
......<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Foresty
biomass waste other than mill residue<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Wood
coated with paints, plastics, or formica<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ul>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>......<br>
<br>
What makes the situation even more complicated is that the bamboo pellet is not
producted on site, but purchased from an off-site suppplier. I would be happy
if it is producted on site, but there is no enough bamboo for burning and no
one work on that...<br>
<br>
Rick<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Would cheaper
fuel be credited?<br>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:56:40 -0500<br>
From: ncaton@smithboucher.com<br>
To: equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
CC: cesseric@hotmail.com; paul.riemer@dunhameng.com; rrosen@taitem.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’ve been reading the bamboo-pellet discussion with some mild
interest… but it occurred to me today – perhaps trying to frame this as a
“heating fuel source” within EA1 is a backwards perspective for a LEED
project. If the bamboo is a renewable thermal heating source, doesn’t it
kinda sound a lot more like “on-site renewable energy sources” EA Credit
2? If you seek and achieve credits in that manner, you get to lop such
calculated energy off of your final proposed cost results under EA1 afterwards,
as though the energy were free.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I advise further careful reading of EA Credit 2. The 2.2
handbook (I don’t have the v3 at hand) has a table defining specific biofuels
as “renewable-energy.” It’s not clear based on the discussion so far
where your bamboo pellets really fit in the excluded/included renewable biomass
materials listings. EA Credit 2 is definitely structured (again in v2.2)
to accommodate biomass fuels for the use of space heating, water heating, or
electricity generation.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="EC_Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CA3224.75DA6960" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT";
color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>YinRic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 09, 2009 4:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> paul.riemer@dunhameng.com; rrosen@taitem.com; Equest User<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Would cheaper fuel be credited?</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Yes,
this is a special case, a group of small houses in a resort to be
LEED certified. The owner wants to make the project the most
green resort in the world...so fossil fuel is in general avoided. I agree
that wood pellet appears to be similar with fossil fuel, like
coal, although it is not fossil and can be renewed within less than 10 years. I
am still expecting an answer about baseline fuel vs. proposed fuel, shall
this be:<br>
<br>
1. wood pellet vs. wood pellet<br>
2. electricity vs. wood pellet<br>
3. natural gas vs. wood pellet<br>
4. other possibilities?<br>
<br>
It seems to me that 1 or 3 shall be more convenient to use than 2, which is, as
Paul said, "risky". But if 3 is used, why natural gas, not coal or
oil? <br>
<br>
Any further comments are welcome.<br>
<br>
Rick<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>From: Paul.Riemer@dunhameng.com<br>
To: rrosen@taitem.com; cesseric@hotmail.com<br>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:30:57 -0500<br>
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Would cheaper fuel be credited?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I probably would not count on a favorable LEED EAc1 review on
this. A literal reading my lead you to say Bamboo falls under
"Electric and Other" in table G.3.1.1A and thus your baseline is
electric heat but that seems like a risky claim. I would be more
inclined to read "Fossil Fuel" as "Purchased Combustible
Fuel" because I do not think the standard anticipated wood fired heating
in its scope of buildings.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Paul</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rob
Rosen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 08, 2009 11:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'YinRic'; 'Equest User'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Would cheaper fuel be credited?</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>ASHRAE Appendix G Modeling
Guidelines Tables 3.1.1A and 3.1.1B give the baseline HVAC system for each
type of building. The baseline heating fuel in all cases is either fossil fuel
or electricity. I believe that a different fuel may be used in the
proposed building, if it is a purchased, renewable fuel (such as wood
pellets). </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Appendix G Section 2.4 Exception
says that if the renewable fuel is site-generated or free (such as
burning waste wood from packing crates), then it cannot be modeled as
a proposed fuel for the purpose of calculating building performance.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Rob Rosen</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Senior Energy Analyst</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Taitem Engineering</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>110 S. Albany St.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Ithaca, NY 14850</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Phone: 607-277-1118 ext 110</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Fax: 607-277-2119</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> YinRic
[mailto:cesseric@hotmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 07, 2009 2:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Equest User<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Would cheaper fuel be credited?</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Hi
Users,<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><br>
In a project, the client wants to</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>use a cheap</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>local fuel (bamboo
pellet, rapidly renewable) to reduce annual energy cost</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>and score high on
EAc1. I am wondering if in baseline, the fuel must al so be bamboo pellet or
could be something else, say, natural gas, the price of which is higher per
thermal unit? I do not seem to find where in ASHRAE 90.1-2004 dictates that in
baseline and proposed, the fuel must be the same. Any comments are appreciated.
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><br>
Thanks,<br>
Rick, PE, LEED AP</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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