<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family:Verdana
}
</style>
</head>
<body class='hmmessage'>
Yes, this is a special case, a group of small houses in a resort to be LEED certified. The owner wants to make the project the most green resort in the world...so fossil fuel is in general avoided. I agree that wood pellet appears to be similar with fossil fuel, like coal, although it is not fossil and can be renewed within less than 10 years. I am still expecting an answer about baseline fuel vs. proposed fuel, shall this be:<BR>
<BR>
1. wood pellet vs. wood pellet<BR>
2. electricity vs. wood pellet<BR>
3. natural gas vs. wood pellet<BR>
4. other possibilities?<BR>
<BR>
It seems to me that 1 or 3 shall be more convenient to use than 2, which is, as Paul said, "risky". But if 3 is used, why natural gas, not coal or oil? <BR>
<BR>
Any further comments are welcome.<BR>
<BR>
Rick<BR> <BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
From: Paul.Riemer@dunhameng.com<BR>To: rrosen@taitem.com; cesseric@hotmail.com<BR>Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:30:57 -0500<BR>Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Would cheaper fuel be credited?<BR><BR>
<STYLE>
.ExternalClass .EC_shape
{;}
</STYLE>
<STYLE>
.ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal
{margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'SimSun','serif';}
.ExternalClass a:link, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
.ExternalClass a:visited, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
.ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle17
{font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D;}
.ExternalClass .EC_MsoChpDefault
{font-size:10.0pt;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;}
.ExternalClass div.EC_Section1
{page:Section1;}
</STYLE>
<DIV class=EC_Section1>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I probably would not count on a favorable LEED EAc1 review on this. A literal reading my lead you to say Bamboo falls under "Electric and Other" in table G.3.1.1A and thus your baseline is electric heat but that seems like a risky claim. I would be more inclined to read "Fossil Fuel" as "Purchased Combustible Fuel" because I do not think the standard anticipated wood fired heating in its scope of buildings.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></B></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Paul</SPAN></B></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Rob Rosen<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 08, 2009 11:57 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'YinRic'; 'Equest User'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Equest-users] Would cheaper fuel be credited?</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">ASHRAE Appendix G Modeling Guidelines Tables 3.1.1A and 3.1.1B give the baseline HVAC system for each type of building. The baseline heating fuel in all cases is either fossil fuel or electricity. I believe that a different fuel may be used in the proposed building, if it is a purchased, renewable fuel (such as wood pellets). </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Appendix G Section 2.4 Exception says that if the renewable fuel is site-generated or free (such as burning waste wood from packing crates), then it cannot be modeled as a proposed fuel for the purpose of calculating building performance.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Rob Rosen</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Senior Energy Analyst</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Taitem Engineering</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">110 S. Albany St.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Ithaca, NY 14850</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Phone: 607-277-1118 ext 110</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Fax: 607-277-2119</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> </P>
<DIV class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> YinRic [mailto:cesseric@hotmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 07, 2009 2:18 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Equest User<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Equest-users] Would cheaper fuel be credited?</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in">Hi Users,<BR><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> </SPAN><BR>In a project, the client wants to<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> </SPAN>use a cheap<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> </SPAN>local fuel (bamboo pellet, rapidly renewable) to reduce annual energy cost<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> </SPAN>and score high on EAc1. I am wondering if in baseline, the fuel must also be bamboo pellet or could be something else, say, natural gas, the price of which is higher per thermal unit? I do not seem to find where in ASHRAE 90.1-2004 dictates that in baseline and proposed, the fuel must be the same. Any comments are appreciated. <BR><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> </SPAN><BR>Thanks,<BR>Rick, PE, LEED AP<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<DIV class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN lang=ZH-CN>搜索本应是快乐的，不是么</SPAN>? <SPAN lang=ZH-CN>快乐搜索，有问必应！微软隆重推出</SPAN>! <A><SPAN lang=ZH-CN>立即试用！</SPAN></A> </P></DIV><br /><hr />与任何您希望的人分享您的回忆。 <a href='http://www.microsoft.com/china/windows/windowslive/products/photos-share.aspx?tab=1' target='_new'>任何您希望的人。</a></body>
</html>