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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ron,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You are correct about 1) below. I would imagine you have
acoustic tile for your ceiling construction, and eQUEST converts this material to
a simple U-value rather than a layered construction with thermal lag. The
main problem resulting from using simple vs. layered constructions is when the
method differs between the baseline and proposed models. For example, it
would be inaccurate to model the baseline’s exterior walls with the
U-value method while modeling the proposed with a layered construction.
The baseline would not have thermal lag accounted for when the loads are
simulated. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Problems with hours outside throttling range are usually system
control issues rather than capacity issues, especially if you’re letting
eQUEST auto-size. For example, a system that is twice as large as it
needs to be for peak loads will probably still have trouble increasing space
temperature by 15 degrees in one hour. You’ll need to coordinate
your design temps, thermostat schedule (pay attention to night setback temps
and morning warm-up), and OA schedule to ensure the system is properly controlled.
I recommend locking out OA during morning warm-up. The detailed reports
will help you research problem zones (SS-F and SS-O). Find out where the
problems are occurring and adjust your system control accordingly. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Regarding CFM between baseline and proposed, I would be suspicious
if they matched. In fact, I’ve never submitted to LEED with
matching flow rates. The proposed system should match construction
drawings, and I assume the mechanical engineer did not use eQUEST for sizing.
ASHRAE 90.1-2004 G.3.1.2.8 says the baseline’s supply needs to be
determined from a 20 degree dT. eQUEST can then auto-size the baseline
flows during sizing runs, and you can use those flows with G3.1.2.9 to determine
your baseline fan power. Even if a 20 degree dT for the proposed case was
used with eQUEST auto-sizing, the resulting flow rates should be different
because the space loads are different (i.e. different skin loads).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Please feel free to contact me directly if you need further
clarification.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
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Kelley<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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color:#1F497D'> Modeling Services<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ron lamarre
[mailto:lamarre_arch@yahoo.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Fw: Plenums and PSZ systems<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks
for the help, here's what I've been able to figure out so far:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>1.
The plenum warning is normal since eQuest assigns a "U-value" for the
ceilings (plenum floor) and not a "layered" construction; therefore,
eQuest assigns a default plenum floor weight. Its unconditioned interior
space so there no negative modeling effect.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2.
The electrical loads were adjusted by correcting the elevator process load
schedule.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
only remaining issue is the modeling of a PVVT system. How does one model
zones using plenums with a PVVT system in eQuest 3.6 ? Some options
already considered (all in the detailed interface):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>a.
making all the plenum walls into air walls did not work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>b.
increasing the sizing ratio did not work (even making the ratio more
than 10 did not signifcantly reduce the out-of-throttling-zone hours)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>c.
adjusting the CFMs and outdoor air did not help reduce the
out-of-throttling-zone hours<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>d.
adjusting the control zone (switching the slave zones) adjusts the hours from
one zone to another; but does not solve the out-of-throttling-zone hours<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
LEED Simulation Question: Does the proposed model need to include the exact
construction document CFMs and zones or can the CFMs be adjusted (while
remaining the same within the models) to make the baseline and proposed
simuations work?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Note:
since a PSZ system and a PVVT system is heated and cooled by supply air, it may
be that the only way this works is to have difference CFMs between models.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Any
help would be great. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Ron
Lamarre, AIA, NCARB</span></strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Architect
- <strong><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>LEED AP</span></strong></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ron lamarre <lamarre_arch@yahoo.com><br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:57:22 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Plenums and PSZ systems</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ron lamarre <lamarre_arch@yahoo.com><br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 2, 2009 5:44:14 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Plenums and PSZ systems</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Hi to all:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>We're designing a new 22K SF LEED office building with a
baseline HVAC system = PSZ RTUs. Two issues have come up with
the final parametric runs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>1. The design incorporates plenum returns; which result
in e-Quest warning messages regarding the lack of floors and ceilings in
the plenum spaces. We have been ignoring these given that the
plenums are "unconditioned" spaces and are without thermostats - is
this the correct method? We are not providing any ductwork and the
returns will not be directly into the units.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>2. The electrical loads are huge. When the simulation
is run with just the ASHRAE baseline, the only equipment that can be elevating
the power to this extreme is the electric DX cooling from the PSZ RTUs.
All lighting is around 1.0 W/SF and there are no process loads yet added.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>The ASHRAE User Manual suggests that when a PSZ system is used, a
"system for each zone" is provided; which is the case in the current
model. We have 24 seperate zones/thermal blocks with dedicated
RTUs). When the HVAC is zoned as designed for the PVVT design case, there
are 9 RTUs; however, the unmet heating and cooling hours are off
the charts. - Are PSZ systems supposed to have one RTU per thermal block, and
if so how does one control the hours out of the throttling zone?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
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<p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Ron Lamarre, AIA, NCARB</span></strong><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Architect - <strong><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>LEED
AP</span></strong></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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