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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Karen and Carol,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Attached is a PDF that illustrates you points that knowledge is
king</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Anyone who deals with MEP systems will enjoy this post.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#6A6A6A'>Dan
Monaghan | Global Marketing Manager<br>
Building Performance Group<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#6A6A6A'>Bentley
Systems, Incorporated<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#6A6A6A'>Phone</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#6A6A6A'>: +1-410-207-5501| <b>Skype</b>:
dmonaghan.skype</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#1F497D'><br>
</span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#6A6A6A'>E-mail</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#6A6A6A'>: <a
href="mailto:christine.byrne@bentley.com">dan.monaghan@bentley.com</a></span><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#1F497D'> </span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#6A6A6A'>| URL:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#6A6A6A'><a
href="http://www.bentley.com/">www.bentley.com</a></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#1F497D'><br>
</span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#6A6A6A'>Address</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:DIN;color:#6A6A6A'>: Bentley | 40 Dunvegan
Rd. | Baltimore| MD | 21228 | USA</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:DIN;color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.bentley.com/"><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=158 height=37
id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01C9BC3D.0F4BC2A0"></span></a><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Karen Walkerman
[mailto:kwalkerman@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 13, 2009 1:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carol Gardner<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Glenn Haynes; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org; Dan Monaghan<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] EnergyPlus--Quest Competitor or Natural
Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I agree that there are some
serious disconnects occurring between the design, modeling, construction and
building operation. I have been on projects where the design engineer
claimed that all pumps will operate at variable speeds, but no control valves
were specified for coils, meaning that while pumps are supplied with VSDs, no
variable speed pumping is actually possible. I've also seen projects
reported where the design team touted the installation of high-efficiency
boilers (94% or better), and then also claimed to be saving pumping energy by
running loop temperatures hot, around 180 F. You have to be very careful
with this combination. I don't know of a boiler that can provide 94%
efficiency at 180F supply water temperature without some very fancy heat
exchangers.<br>
<br>
Sometimes field changes are made that cut into the energy performance of a
building. Simple pipe distribution and pumping changes can have large
energy performance impacts. Simple misplacement of a DP sensor in a
pumping loop can result in inadequate flow to heating and cooling coils.
This often results in an efficient pumping system being forced into an all-on
position so that all systems are provided with adequate flow. Each
building tells its own story. I've seen fantastic engineers produce
horrible models because they understand how buildings work, but not how
computer programs think.<br>
<br>
When I first started watching this list-serve, someone said "if you can't
develop a simple excel spreadsheet calculation to estimate what you are trying
to model, you shouldn't be modeling it." I think that we all need to
take this to heart. You should be able to explain each and every
result. If you can't, look through hourly outputs. See how the
program is calculating things. Figure out what is going on. All of
the output reports available from eQuest allow for a window into the
calculation mechanism of the program that is absolutely fantastic. It is
unlikely that I will use a modeling program that doesn't provide me with this
sort of transparency, and post-processing ability.<br>
<br>
I have looked through Energy Plus. On the surface it seems that there's
some valuable functionality available that is not currently available in
eQuest, but without a fully-functional graphical user interface, and extensive
testing, none of that matters. Precision does not equal accuracy.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Karen<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Carol Gardner <<a
href="mailto:gems@spiritone.com">gems@spiritone.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I agree with Glenn. I have always regretted the split that
occurred between the eQUEST team and the EnergyPlus team that occurred lo so
many years ago now. We users have paid for that the most. Just think what tools
would be available right now if all those experts were still working
together.....<br>
<br>
William cited operations as the reason for green buildings not performing as
they should; Dan thinks it is the tool's fault. I think we, as energy modelers,
better look in the mirror to see who is at fault. There are a lot of untrained
new people entering this field who think that by possessing an engineering
degree, or some other advanced degree, they should be able to jump right in and
do this work. I have been doing it for 25 years now using a variety of tools
and I can tell you that any tool I use is only as good as my ability to make it
work, and I am still learning how to do that.<br>
<br>
It is not correct to assume that the funding for eQUEST is insignificant just
because federal $ are no longer available for it. As far as I know eQUEST is
funded at a level that the current eQUEST team is hard pressed to spend because
there are not enough of them doing the work as well as not enough hours in the
day. Also, they are constantly making changes and improvement which address the
past concerns that people had about the algorithms, heat balance methodology,
etc.<br>
<br>
Each team, the EnergyPlus team and the eQUEST team. is composed of highly
educated and trained professionals that are capable of developing great tools
for our use. Each one will eventually function as well as a user can make it
function. And, that again is the biggest problem. The user, not the tool. We
can wish for a model to do this or to do that but as long as there are users
out there, you know who you are, who are untrained and inexperienced, bad
results will be obtained using whatever tool is used.<br>
<br>
Carol Gardner PE<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Glenn Haynes wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
Mr. Koran has made some good points on the power of government funding to
assure that EnergyPlus will eventually overtake DOE2 and eQuest. But this
doesn’t guarantee a better simulation code. Doe2 has the backing of
decades of usage and testing by millions of experienced building simulation
modelers worldwide. It has undergone thousands of corrections and improvements
during its lifetime, and has evolved to the point that it has been widely
accepted and used as the benchmark by which other simulation codes are tested
and proven.<br>
<br>
So my advice is let’s not be hasty in writing off such a powerful legacy
and jumping to something newer just because it is receiving more funding at this
point in time. Wasn’t DOE2 conceived and developed under federal (DOE)
funding decades ago? Do we need to start over with a new baby? We can all point
out weaknesses in a tool that we are all intimately familiar with, but have we
spent enough time and effort to look as carefully and critically at EnergyPlus?
Not yet, because we can’t until EnergyPlus (or any other newer software)
has undergone as much usage and scrutiny as DOE2 and its derivitives.<br>
<br>
No matter how much money is spent on a newer code, I will personally put more
faith and confidence in the more tried and proven code. That kind of confidence
can’t be bought; it can only develop over a long time. When EnergyPlus
has been proven to my satisfaction to be better than DOE2, then I will be happy
to switch.<br>
<br>
Remember McIntosh computers and their windows GUI? Has Microsoft created a
better product? I don’t think so, but we have been unhappily forced to
switch because most other people have, and it was all due to money and its
power, not a better product. As grass roots users of DOE2, let’s stick
together and demand that EnergyPlus be proven to our satisfaction to be at
least as good as DOE2 before we switch. After all, we pay our government to
serve our needs, not to use our money to dictate our choices.<br>
<br>
Glenn Haynes, PE<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
*From:* <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
*On Behalf Of *Bill<br>
*Sent:* Sunday, April 12, 2009 11:00 PM<br>
*To:* <a href="mailto:Dan.Monaghan@bentley.com" target="_blank">Dan.Monaghan@bentley.com</a>;
<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
*Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] EnergyPlus--Quest Competitor or Natural Evolution<br>
<br>
I work mostly in the existing buildings (non- or pre-"green) markets, but
to the extent green buildings don't live up to the promises is largely due to
operaitons, not design. Many green buildings are more complex, and since even
more traditional buildings typically have significantly sub-optimal operations,
it is only logical that green buildings will suffer at least as much when
compared to expectations/simulation results.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Some interesting documentation of green building performance
is available at <a href="http://www.newbuildings.org" target="_blank">www.newbuildings.org</a>
<<a href="http://www.newbuildings.org" target="_blank">http://www.newbuildings.org</a>>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
As far as Energy Plus and eQuest, I only have experience with DOE-2 and eQuest.
EnergyPlus should be superior since it was built using the best of DOE-2 and
BLAST. IIRC, it was moving away from a transfer-function-based simulation to a
heat balance-based simulation. This should also help it to be superior in some
circumstances. DOE-2 derivative simulation tools are generally weak at
simulating suboptimal operations, and are very poor at simulating certain
controls improvements or retrocommissioning measures. I don't know how much
better EnergyPlus is in this regard.<br>
<br>
At any rate, because of federal funding, and that some (many/most?) federal
projects and organizations will only allow EnergyPlus, it seems certain that
EnergyPlus is the future. My use of DOE-2 dates back to before there were
convenient interfaces and we dealt only with BDL and user-defined functions,
and we needed the stacks of documentation to know what we were doing. I
certainly believe that as more interfaces for EnergyPlus are developed, more
students come out of school with knowledge of EnergyPlus, and more of us learn
EnergyPlus, it will see greater and greater use.<br>
<br>
William E. Koran, P.E.<br>
Senior Engineer<br>
Q u E S T<br>
Quantum Energy Services and Technologies<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Web: <a href="http://www.quest-world.com" target="_blank">www.quest-world.com</a>
<<a href="http://www.quest-world.com/" target="_blank">http://www.quest-world.com/</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
*From:* <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
*On Behalf Of *<a href="mailto:Dan.Monaghan@bentley.com" target="_blank">Dan.Monaghan@bentley.com</a><br>
*Sent:* Sunday, April 12, 2009 7:05 PM<br>
*To:* <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
*Subject:* [Equest-users] EnergyPlus--Quest Competitor or Natural Evolution<br>
<br>
Thanks to all the people who responded to my question.<br>
<br>
A few of you ask me to post the result from my very unscientific survey.<br>
<br>
The list is split 50%, 50% in their opinion that EnergyPlus will become a
natural transition to eQuest.<br>
<br>
The basic sentiment is that eQuest is recognized to be less capable, but faster
and easier to use.<br>
<br>
However, almost all who responded recognized that as the demand for
high-performance buildings grows, the ability to/ //accurately/ predict energy
consumption, C02 emissions, occupant comfort and life cycle costs are going to
become more important. I read this to mean that the demand for detailed
analysis tools like EnergyPuls is likely to increase.<br>
<br>
Someone asked me why Bentley cares. We believe that there’s a hole in the
U.S. energy analysis/simulation market. We believe, as this survey indicates,
that the tools available to U.S. designers seem to fall into two camps. Tools
that are easy-to-use, but inaccurate/incomplete. Or, tools that are precise,
but difficult to use and slow.<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, because of this we see:<br>
<br>
1. Many “green” building don’t live up to the promises<br>
<br>
2. Robust energy simulation is typically reserved for “special”
projects, or certain project types.<br>
<br>
3. Accurate energy analysis is typically siloed, as oppose to integrated into
the design process<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>As the leader in building engineering and analysis software
or mission is “sustaining the worlds infrastructure”. As such
we’re working on solving this problem, <a
href="http://www.bentley.com/eps" target="_blank">www.bentley.com/eps</a> <<a
href="http://www.bentley.com/eps" target="_blank">http://www.bentley.com/eps</a>>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
*Dan Monaghan | Global Marketing Manager<br>
Building Performance Group*<br>
<br>
*Bentley Systems, Incorporated*<br>
<br>
*Phone*: +1-410-207-5501| *Skype*: dmonaghan.skype<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>*E-mail*: <a href="mailto:dan.monaghan@bentley.com"
target="_blank">dan.monaghan@bentley.com</a> <mailto:<a
href="mailto:christine.byrne@bentley.com" target="_blank">christine.byrne@bentley.com</a>>*
**| URL:* <a href="http://www.bentley.com" target="_blank">www.bentley.com</a>
<<a href="http://www.bentley.com" target="_blank">http://www.bentley.com</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
*Address*: Bentley | 40 Dunvegan Rd. | Baltimore| MD | 21228 | USA<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Picture (Device Independent Bitmap)<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
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