<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:p="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" xmlns:a="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" xmlns:s="uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" xmlns:rs="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z="#RowsetSchema" xmlns:b="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" xmlns:ss="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" xmlns:c="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" xmlns:odc="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" xmlns:oa="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:q="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:D="DAV:" xmlns:x2="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/excel/2003/xml" xmlns:ois="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/ois/" xmlns:dir="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/directory/" xmlns:ds="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#" xmlns:dsp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/dsp" xmlns:udc="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:sub="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/2002/1/alerts/" xmlns:ec="http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#" xmlns:sp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/" xmlns:sps="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:udcs="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/soap" xmlns:udcxf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile" xmlns:udcp2p="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/parttopart" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:st="" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin-top:6.0pt;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:6.0pt;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In
my vernacular:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>a
pump that exists to push water through primary equipment (i.e. a chiller) is a
primary pump<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>a
pump that exists to push water through secondary equipment (i.e. a cooling coil
in an air handler) is a secondary pump<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>a
pump that pushes water through both generally does need a specific name because
it is usually the only pump<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>but
I see that my vernacular cannot adequately name the components in their example.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If
you are trying to replicate their example, I think you would be better to go
through the wizard choosing "Single System Pump(s) only " and
describing only the CHWP-1 pumps.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Then
in the detailed interface add your additional loops and pumps (CHWP-2 and
CHWP-3).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I
am done for the day, so good luck.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Karl Stum [mailto:kstum@summitbe.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 05, 2009 3:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Riemer<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Dennis Hunt'; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Primary-secondary loop configuration<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Thanks, I can see your point when
looking at the schematics. But, how do I reconcile the tree structure without
two circulation loops with the DOE Topics Vol. 2, p. 312-313, merged and pasted
below?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><img width=943 height=1055
id="_x0000_i1031" src="cid:image001.gif@01C987AC.75A14E00"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>____________________________</span><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Karl Stum, PE</span><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>360 573 5700 ofc<br>
360 771 0918 cell</span><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Summit Building Engineering</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:
0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Paul Riemer
[mailto:Paul.Riemer@dunhameng.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Karl Stum'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Dennis Hunt'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Primary-secondary loop configuration</span><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Karl,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Maybe you and I are on opposite sides of the naming convention
too but I will offer my take on the naming issues. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In your first screen capture. I would call the
"Chlr#* (Screw) Pump"s dedicated primary pumps on implied primary
loops and the "Chilled Water Loop" is a secondary loop with "CHW
Loop Pump" the secondary loop pump.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In your second screen capture, I would still call the
"Chlr#* (Screw) Pump"s dedicated primary pumps on implied primary
loops, the "Primary CHW Loop" is a secondary loop without a
pump and your "Secondary CHW Loop" is a tertiary loop with a pump.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Good luck,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:1.0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Karl Stum [mailto:kstum@summitbe.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 05, 2009 3:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Riemer<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Dennis Hunt'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Primary-secondary loop configuration<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Thanks for the response.
Here’s the tree structure. It only shows one loop. I really question the
validity of what the Wizard is doing. So, I went into the detailed mode and
created another circulation loop and set it up the way I think it should be,
but if that is right, then the 100’s of Wizard set ups by modelers
everywhere are messed up, and I doubt that???? See the tree from the
detailed set up I did in the second image below. The problem with that one is I
can’t get the one coil load to get off the primary loop and I don’t
trust it, if it is so different than what the Wizard sets up.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><img width=824 height=676
id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image002.jpg@01C987AC.75A14E00"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>DETAILED SETUP CREATING A
SECONDARY CIRCULATION LOOP. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Now chillers are assigned to the
primary loop, the secondary loop assigned to primary loop and loads are
assigned to secondary loop (except when I assign the DDS(B) load to the
secondary, it looks OK in the tree, but the schematic looses the secondary loop
altogether??).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><img width=807 height=505
id="_x0000_i1028" src="cid:image003.jpg@01C987AC.75A14E00"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>____________________________</span><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Karl Stum, PE</span><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>360 573 5700 ofc<br>
360 771 0918 cell</span><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Summit Building Engineering</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:
0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:1.0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Paul Riemer
[mailto:Paul.Riemer@dunhameng.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Karl Stum'; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Primary-secondary loop configuration</span><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Karl,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>EQUEST's pump & loop naming is unconventional and
confusing. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think you are have solved it and looking at the water side
component tree view with all the +'s expanded should solidify it for you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Let's just all be thankful that DOE2.2 gives us multiple loops
and pump curves.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:1.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Karl
Stum<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 05, 2009 2:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Primary-secondary loop configuration<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'>Chilled water primary-secondary
loop configuration.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'>When using the eQuest Wizard and a
primary-secondary chilled water pumping system is set up, I don’t see the
secondary circulation loop in the tree structure. Furthermore, per the DOE
documentation, the chillers would be assigned to the primary loop and the
cooling loads assigned to the secondary loop (DOE2 Topics Vol 2, p. 312-313),
but the results from the Wizard show in the tree structure everything assigned
to the primary loop, as does the output PV-A Plant Design Parameters report. In
that report, the chillers do show term called “(Run-around)”
by their evaporators. Is this supposed to be what we would normally call the
primary loop? Why aren’t there two circulation loops showing up in the
tree structure?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'>Karl<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>_____________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Karl Stum, PE</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><strong><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Summit Building Engineering</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2516 NW 91st Street</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Vancouver, WA 98665</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>v. 360 573 5700</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>c. 360 771 0918</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>f. 360 573 5155</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href="http://www.summitbe.com">http://www.summitbe.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>