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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It seems odd to me that 90.1-2007 requires the baseline building
to have one system per floor (system types 5, 6, 7 & 8).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>These are all VAV systems, where you have individual VAV boxes
responding to different thermal zones. Why would different<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>number of AHU’s in this case make a difference in heating and
cooling energy consumption?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In terms of fan energy, however, different number of AHU’s may
make a difference. This is because 90.1 regulates<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>the fan brake horsepower, which is depending on the size of the
fan (Table G3.1.2.9, <20,000 cfm or >20,000 cfm).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>For the same sized building, assuming the total supply airflow
being roughly the same independent of the number of <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>AHU’s used, each individual fan’s brake house power would be
different depending on its fan size, this may lead to <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>different total fan energy consumption when you add all
individual fan energy up. For this reason, I would argue, it makes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>more sense to keep the same number of AHU’s in the baseline case
as in the proposed design, for you would then be comparing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>“apple to apple”, because the fan sizes in the proposed design
would be “comparable” to those in the baseline case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D'>George
Hu, PE, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D'>President<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D'>AWE |
Air Water Energy Engineers, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D'>781.652.8688<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D'>www.awe-e.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bill
Talbert<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Hansen; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] FW: Number of systems required by 90.1?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>James,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>90.1-2004 addendum u
includes the 'one system per floor' wording for systems 5 thru 8, but
floors can be grouped when the thermal blocks are similar. For LEED, it is
optional to use addenda. 90.1-2007 adopts the same wording.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Bill <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Technic'>Bill Talbert, PE, </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Technic;layout-grid-mode:line'>LEED® AP</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Technic'><br>
Mechanical Systems</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Technic'>Phone: (608) 441-6677<br>
E-mail: btalbert@aeieng.com<br>
<br>
Affiliated Engineers Inc.<br>
5802 Research Park Blvd.<br>
Madison, WI. 53719<br>
Tel. (608) 238-2616<br>
Fax. (608) 238-2614</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
>>> "James Hansen" <JHANSEN@ghtltd.com> 12/10/2008
11:45 AM >>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Thanks
for your response Richard.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Can
anyone confirm whether ASHRAE 90.1-2007 specifically says that your Baseline
model MUST have a system per floor?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>I
can’t seem to find it in 2004, or the user’s manual, or in the LEED-NC reference
guide.</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:teal'>GHT
Limited<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>James
Hansen</span><span style='color:black'>, PE, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Senior Associate</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Arlington, VA 22201-4749</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>703-338-5754 (Cell)</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>703-243-1200 (Office)</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>703-276-1376 (Fax)</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:teal'><a
href="http://www.ghtltd.com/"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.ghtltd.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Richard Ellison
[mailto:REllison@southlandind.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Hansen<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Number of systems required by 90.1?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I interpret ASHRAE to suggest
one should use 5 AHUs for just the reason you mentioned. They are
different because of different exposures. One has slab and one has
roof. The external load would be different as would the return plenum
temperatures. One might be able to group floors 2-5 energy wise but I
recall reading, perhaps in 2007 where they specifically meant on per floor for
the baseline. I always have at least one AHU per floor in my baseline
models. Using only one AHU would be cheating a bit. This would be
the same logic that says one must zone rooms with different occupancies or
schedules separately.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>RICHARD ELLISON</span><span style='color:#E36C0A'> <br>
</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Energy Engineer</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#E36C0A'>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Southland Industries</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>22340 Dresden Street, Suite 177</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dulles, VA 20166</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Office: 703.834.5570</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Direct: 703. 834.2438</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Fax: 703.834.5572</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James
Hansen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Number of systems required by 90.1?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I’m working on a model of a 5-story building – my Proposed
system is floor-by-floor chilled water AHUs connected to a water-cooled chiller
central plan. Airside is shutoff VAV boxes with hot water reheat.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>For the size of the building, the baseline model is almost
identical. It is System 7 – Packaged rooftop VAV system with reheat
boxes, chilled water, hot water boilers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>My question is whether or not the Baseline model has to have
a single system for the building, or should it have 5 separate RTUs (doesn’t
really make any sense) since my proposed building has 5 systems?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I’m pretty sure the answer is that the Baseline should just
have one packaged RTU for the building, but it actually makes a big difference
on energy use. By breaking the systems down into one-per-floor, as is the
case with the proposed model, I end up saving a LOT of energy, possibly because
the 1<sup>st</sup> floor is slab-on-grade, and the 5<sup>th</sup> floor has a
roof. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Just wanted to make sure I have the correct number of
“systems” for the Baseline model.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:teal'>GHT
Limited<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>James
Hansen</span><span style='color:black'>, PE, LEED AP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Senior Associate</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Arlington, VA 22201-4749</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>703-338-5754 (Cell)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>703-243-1200 (Office)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>703-276-1376 (Fax)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:teal'><a
href="http://www.ghtltd.com/"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.ghtltd.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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information contained in this communication is confidential, may be privileged,
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return e-mail or by e-mail to </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
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