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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>James,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I agree addendum u seems is the only big direction in Appendix G,
and LEED-NC 2.2 applicants can elect to follow it or not. Addendum u
changed G3.1.1 but not its exceptions. In 90.1-2007, G31.1 includes
addendum u and some changes to the exceptions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think the exceptions to G3.1.1 should also be reviewed from
which ever version. I have pondered occasionally if they are allowed
exceptions or dictated/mandatory exceptions, and I am leaning more toward
the latter recently.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>(If by some odd chance you were referring to the ECB method, I prescribe
a baseline system for each proposed system.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If you have to or choose to have different system alignments, then
be conscious of keeping OA constant and all those parameters that vary by
system size like fan power, heat recovery, economizer, package cooling efficiency,
etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Paul Riemer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bill
Talbert<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Hansen; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] FW: Number of systems required by 90.1?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>James,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>90.1-2004 addendum u includes the 'one
system per floor' wording for systems 5 thru 8, but floors can be grouped
when the thermal blocks are similar. For LEED, it is optional to use addenda.
90.1-2007 adopts the same wording.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Bill <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Technic'>Bill Talbert, PE, </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Technic;layout-grid-mode:line'>LEED® AP</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Technic'><br>
Mechanical Systems</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Technic'>Phone: (608) 441-6677<br>
E-mail: btalbert@aeieng.com<br>
<br>
Affiliated Engineers Inc.<br>
5802 Research Park Blvd.<br>
Madison, WI. 53719<br>
Tel. (608) 238-2616<br>
Fax. (608) 238-2614</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
>>> "James Hansen" <JHANSEN@ghtltd.com> 12/10/2008
11:45 AM >>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Thanks for your response Richard.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Can anyone confirm whether ASHRAE 90.1-2007
specifically says that your Baseline model MUST have a system per floor?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>I can’t seem to find it in 2004, or
the user’s manual, or in the LEED-NC reference guide.</span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:teal'>GHT Limited<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>James
Hansen</span><span style='color:black'>, PE, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Senior Associate</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200</span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Arlington, VA 22201-4749</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>703-338-5754 (Cell)</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>703-243-1200 (Office)</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>703-276-1376 (Fax)</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:teal'><a
href="http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?IKnspLtASC--ZtVVMS028AVDPgVv3t-LtxYQsLTjvhdTd-bd_iptKDNEn8lrxrW0E-l9QWIf8dOfgB0zM04SCCUqem3qaqrNEVpjhKedLCzAS2_id41Fr6xpLWjbJQ-d3iWq81s1kzh0q80oSGg-9EwGWq8a5GjZmxEwzUITafE6y0wmd41EVLO98TfM-u0USyrjdFLLLnuuudQ0SQnqYMFSB-"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.ghtltd.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Richard Ellison
[mailto:REllison@southlandind.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Hansen<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Number of systems required by 90.1?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'>I
interpret ASHRAE to suggest one should use 5 AHUs for just the reason you mentioned.
They are different because of different exposures. One has slab and one
has roof. The external load would be different as would the return plenum
temperatures. One might be able to group floors 2-5 energy wise but I
recall reading, perhaps in 2007 where they specifically meant on per floor for
the baseline. I always have at least one AHU per floor in my baseline
models. Using only one AHU would be cheating a bit. This would be
the same logic that says one must zone rooms with different occupancies or
schedules separately.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>RICHARD ELLISON</span><span
style='color:#E36C0A'> <br>
</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Energy Engineer</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#E36C0A'>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Southland Industries</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>22340 Dresden Street, Suite 177</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dulles, VA 20166</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Office: 703.834.5570</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Direct: 703. 834.2438</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Fax: 703.834.5572</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James
Hansen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Number of systems required by 90.1?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>I’m working on a model of a
5-story building – my Proposed system is floor-by-floor chilled water
AHUs connected to a water-cooled chiller central plan. Airside is shutoff
VAV boxes with hot water reheat.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>For the size of the building, the
baseline model is almost identical. It is System 7 – Packaged
rooftop VAV system with reheat boxes, chilled water, hot water boilers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>My question is whether or not the
Baseline model has to have a single system for the building, or should it have
5 separate RTUs (doesn’t really make any sense) since my proposed
building has 5 systems?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>I’m pretty sure the answer is
that the Baseline should just have one packaged RTU for the building, but it
actually makes a big difference on energy use. By breaking the systems
down into one-per-floor, as is the case with the proposed model, I end up
saving a LOT of energy, possibly because the 1<sup>st</sup> floor is
slab-on-grade, and the 5<sup>th</sup> floor has a roof. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Just wanted to make sure I have the
correct number of “systems” for the Baseline model.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:teal'>GHT Limited<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>James
Hansen</span><span style='color:black'>, PE, LEED AP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Senior Associate</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Arlington, VA 22201-4749</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>703-338-5754 (Cell)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>703-243-1200 (Office)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>703-276-1376 (Fax)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:teal'><a
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style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.ghtltd.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part
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Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part
thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received
this communication in error, please notify me immediately by return e-mail or
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style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>, and
destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all
attachments. Thank you.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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