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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I thought Andrew said this mostly well but maybe equations
would help.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>EER = (Cooling Output Btu/hr ) / (Supply Fan W +
Compressor W + Condenser Fan W)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>COP = Output / Input and is
unitless </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>EIR = 1/COP (so it is also unitless) =
(Compressor Input + Condenser Input) / (Cooling
Output)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>So hopefully you see that EIR does not include supply fan
energy. All <SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=026514418-13082008>fan energy is modeled
in DOE-2 based on the separate fan energy inputs and assumptions. Of
course ASHRAE 90.1-2004 Section 6 and Appendix G including amendments prescribe
baseline fan power limits and part load
performance.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I believe the Standard Test Procedure for determining
the EER rating includes a prescribed external static pressure but exactly what
portion of the total unit electric energy is due to the supply fan would vary a
little from unit to unit based on type of fan, internal static losses,
etc.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>So the eQUEST WIZARD is removing an
assumed standard fan component from the entered EER and
doing a units conversion to determine a cooling efficiency (EIR) for
DOE-2.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=026514418-13082008>I have in my files:
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=026514418-13082008>EIR =
(1/EER-0.012167)/((1/3.413)+ 0.012167)</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=026514418-13082008>EIR =
(1/SEER*0.778+1.4)-0.012167)/((1/3.413)+ 0.012167)</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=026514418-13082008>I do not recall where I
found this but o<SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN class=026514418-13082008>bviously I attribute it to the
above eQUEST development team.<SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=026514418-13082008> I do
apologize if it is out of date, misinterpreted, or
mistyped.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>I encourage digging deep
through the program, its help files, and the various archives and also
attending a training session like the Energy Center of Wisconsin's with Marlin
Addison.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=026514418-13082008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=026514418-13082008>Paul
Riemer</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=026514418-13082008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=026514418-13082008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Robby
Oylear<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:19 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Equest-users] Wizard DX
EER Correction<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sorry to dig up an
old topic, but I have a question about the wizard that was talked about a year
ago. As mentioned below, the wizard will change the efficiency you input
into the program, but I can not figure out what the change is based on.
One would assume its taking into account the fan power, but by changing the
fan bhp entry in the wizard I see no change in the EIR that is output by the
wizard. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Does anyone have any
insight as to how the wizard reaches the resulting EIR for DX
units?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Franklin Gothic Demi" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "
FranklinGothicDemi?;color:navy?="">Robby Oylear</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face="Franklin Gothic Demi" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "
FranklinGothicDemi?;color:navy?=""><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><I><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic">Mechanical
Engineer<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">direct:
206.788.4571<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">cell: 206.354.2721</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 3pt"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A
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href="http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?2OVtNCZSjqrXXRTDD3o0abt2sE4rlVsTvHECzBAQsK8FzC3tPvyPvQCnrFYq5O5mUm-wafBiteH3O3szQ9g8Y01dFLELc6QkQnD7QnSnzr9EVdCBIq5C_FcKTjUQdbFEw0mgFIk3h070cq81Eq1pEw4GNzZFOH0TfM-u0USyrjdFLLLnuuudYFek"><SPAN
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<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
BLDG-SIM@gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Andrew Craig<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:06
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
BLDG-SIM@gard.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
[BLDG-SIM] a qucik question about Cooling EIR --
eQuest</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "
CourierNew??="">Anna---</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">The EIR in eQUEST is
the combined efficiency of the</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "
CourierNew??="">unit</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">condenser and
compressor while the ASHRAE code EER or SEER values are the entire packaged
unit efficiency. You'll notice if you enter a</SPAN></FONT> <FONT
face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "
CourierNew??="">published</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">EER or SEER in the
wizard and then check the EIR output in the detailed edit mode, it does
not</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">equal 3.413/EER because
it isn't taking into account the fan efficiency</SPAN></FONT> <FONT
face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "
CourierNew??="">or inefficiency depending on how you look at
it.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">If you are doing a
model for LEED, the way I have been</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">advised to
model packaged units is to enter the ASHRAE Table values in the wizard (EER
or</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">SEER) and let the
program parse out the components of EIR and fan power. Then, calculate
the baseline fan efficiency and enter that</SPAN></FONT> <FONT
face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "
CourierNew??="">number</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">in the detailed edit
mode, overriding the wizard created value.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">I have heard from
members on the ASHRAE committee that Appendix G does not handle this issue
very well and it seems to be something that could be refined. If anyone
out there has a more definitive stance on the proper way to model packaged
units in eQUEST with regards to ASHRAE/Appendix G, please chime
in.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "
CourierNew??="">Regards,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><A name=""><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">Andrew Craig, EIT,
LEED® AP | Mechanical Designer</SPAN></FONT></A><o:p></o:p></P>
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<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: BLDG-SIM@gard.com [<A
href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com">mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com</A>] On Behalf Of
Anna Liu<BR>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 11:38 AM<BR>To:
BLDG-SIM@gard.com<BR>Subject: [BLDG-SIM] a qucik question about Cooling EIR --
eQuest</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">Hello all,
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">I have a quick question
about the Cooling EIR in</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">eQuest. If I got COP
from ASHRAE90.1-2004 Table 6.8.1,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">then EIR=1/COP. Does
this caculation include the</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">supply fan electrical
energy already or not? </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">Thanks for your help.
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: " CourierNew??="">Regards,
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "
CourierNew??="">Anna</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "
CourierNew??="">
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
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