[Equest-users] Simulation Error - Abnormal simulation results detected - Sim Guidelines
Nicholas Caton
Nicholas.Caton at se.com
Wed Sep 16 10:03:59 PDT 2020
I'm providing a response that I hope may serve as a template/reference for a few of you to pick up this "bug tracking" skillset, and hopefully pay it forward for someone else someday!
Anytime you see the pattern "msgbomb" and then some numbers in a SIM report, that's a potentially helpful clue for logic you can look for in the doe2 source files.
[cid:image005.png at 01D68C1F.0D533500]
To follow along, you'll need to pull down a copy of the doe 2.3 source files (here: http://doe2.com/download/DOE-23/). I'm specifically referencing the build D23s50e.zip.
In the file ...doe23/SRC503/SYS.lis... I find a single reference to your msgbomb code ("Call MsgBomb(2010)"):
[cid:image003.png at 01D68C11.A8ED3960]
* I believe we are looking at Fortran. I'm not "fluent," but playing around with eQuest and other programming languages for a few years renders this logic relatively legible... here's a step-through of my observations:
* This is part of a subroutine called "TrmSer" (repeated along the right)
* Note that comments in this language/format have lines with a "c" as the first character
* If you scroll up to where TrmSer (along the right) approaches zero, we find a set of comment lines explaining that this routine (and therefore your error) is associated with this simulation of a series VAV box:
[cid:image002.png at 01D68C10.8E243030]
* Most variables to be found in source subroutines are defined (for humans) in the companion source file EDTT.out:
* Some relevant excerpts helping with the above logic:
zn.CFMcd 1 0 AA(Jzn+476) Terminal flow, cold deck, cfm EDTCRD5729
zn.CFMind 1 0 AA(Jzn+480) Terminal flow, induced, cfm EDTCRD5733
zn.CFMt 1 0 AA(Jzn+482) Terminal flow, all sources, cfm EDTCRD5735
zn.dTfan 1 0 AA(Jzn+565) Fan temperature rise, F EDTCRD5809
zn.ModeTstat I 1 0 IA(Jzn+473) Thermostat control mode 0 deadband 1 passive EDTCRD5724
2 aux cool 3 terminal cool 4 overload EDTCRD5725
Heating is same but negative EDTCRD5726
zn;SizeTerminal I 1 0 IA(Jzn+385) Flag if terminal is unsized EDTCRD5653
zn.Tcd 1 0 AA(Jzn+515) Cold deck temperature, F EDTCRD5770
zn.Thd 1 0 AA(Jzn+517) Hot deck temperature, F EDTCRD5772
zn.Tsup 1 0 AA(Jzn+475) Supply T leaving terminal, entering zone, F EDTCRD5728
Thoughts:
* It catches my eye that this particular set of IF/THEN logic may be exited early based on a flag which is determined by whether the terminal box is unsized.
* It may be possible to eliminate/avoid this error by either manually sizing some terminal boxes and/or allowing for auto-sizing (considering the path you're on when this error triggers).
* This could be the mechanism by which some have found this error "going away" by deleting and re-defining the system(s).
* The actual msgbomb error is called when there's a difference of at least 0.05 degrees F between
* the air leaving the terminal / entering the zone, <zn.Tsup>, and
* the mixed temperature calculated by weighting cold deck / hot deck air, by airflow, then additionally considering fan heat.
* The latter is relatively self-explanatory, so this leads me to further understand the value <zn.Tsup>. The preceding instance in the subroutine shows how this value is calculated before being used for comparison against the (mixed air + fan heat) temp:
[cid:image001.png at 01D68C16.BF3355B0]
* This line looks a lot like the old standby, Q = 1.08*CFM*dT, rearranged to solve for one of the temperatures
* Elsewhere within the TrmSer subroutine, I have confirmed my suspicions, and can better understand that <zn.Tsup> is describing the temperature :
Qgross = <zn.QtrmGross> ! terminal extraction TrmSer1527
BtuF = <ah.Btuh/CFM-F> ! Supply heat transport factor TrmSer 22
* Where (from EDTT.OUT):
ah.Btuh/CFM-F 1 0 AA(Kah+207) Air heat transport, Btuh/CFM-F EDTCRD6197
zn.QtrmGross 1 0 AA(Jzn+577) Terminal extraction and diffuser, Btuh EDTCRD5821
zn.Tzone 1 0 AA(Jzn+508) Zone temperature, end of current hour EDTCRD5763
* So all told, I think I understand that the error thrown is a sanity check to ensure that the temperature of the air leaving the coils after gross heat extraction is relatively close (sanity check) to what you would expect after mixing airstream temps at the appropriate weighting, and accounting for fan heat.
* This leads me to suggest looking closely (for anything weird/unintuitive) at:
* Terminal fan inputs, perhaps somehow resulting in excess heat introduction?
* The temperatures associated with hot/cold airstreams entering the terminal box (as contextually fitting with the model inputs at hand)
* Is there zone or terminal coil/extraction capacity entered that's at-odds with the airflow sizing? If any of these aren't hard-entered, might need to provide these inputs.
Obviously this doesn't lead to a one-size fits all solution for everyone encountering this error (there are apparently multiple variables/inputs that could come into play), but it might be enough to distill a few dials to turn to find the solution. I hope this perspective is helpful!
~Nick
[cid:image006.jpg at 01D68C21.70CA16B0]
Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
Senior Energy Engineer
Energy and Sustainability Services
Energy Performance Contracting
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Lenexa, KS 66219
[cid:image008.png at 01D68C10.2FCC1E80]
From: Equest-users <equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> On Behalf Of Seaman, Ethan via Equest-users
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 10:37 AM
To: Bishop, Bill <bbishop at pathfinder-ea.com>; Lee Shaver <lshaver at slipstreaminc.org>; Kathryn Kerns <kathryn.kerns at bceengineers.com>
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Simulation Error - Abnormal simulation results detected - Sim Guidelines
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Hi Bill,
Thanks for the FYI - I'm also not sure how much has changed because the system work-around appendix still includes the DOAS work-around commonly used in DOE 2.2.
Have you ever come across this ''abnormal simulation results'' error before?
_______________________________________________
Ethan Seaman
Sustainable Design Analyst
SMMA
t: 617.520.9288
www.smma.com<http://www.smma.com>
From: Bishop, Bill <bbishop at pathfinder-ea.com<mailto:bbishop at pathfinder-ea.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 11:31 AM
To: Seaman, Ethan <eseaman at smma.com<mailto:eseaman at smma.com>>; Lee Shaver <lshaver at slipstreaminc.org<mailto:lshaver at slipstreaminc.org>>; Kathryn Kerns <kathryn.kerns at bceengineers.com<mailto:kathryn.kerns at bceengineers.com>>
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: RE: Simulation Error - Abnormal simulation results detected - Sim Guidelines
Hi Ethan,
Thank you for the reference to the Mass. Simulation Guidelines. There are some helpful eQUEST-specific tips and keyword expressions in there!
FYI - there is a newer version v2.3 released July 2020. Not sure how different it is. https://www.masssave.com/-/media/Files/PDFs/Business/Hourly_Simulation_Guidelines.pdf?la=en&hash=B4A511B16BCBE4B2FCB286C4A92F84B479A39851<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.masssave.com%2F-%2Fmedia%2FFiles%2FPDFs%2FBusiness%2FHourly_Simulation_Guidelines.pdf%3Fla%3Den%26hash%3DB4A511B16BCBE4B2FCB286C4A92F84B479A39851&data=02%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40se.com%7Cd0401721c18b462acf9e08d8598d49f0%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C1%7C637357810656462441&sdata=fDQWcwSS9WpL0DNOvy5Sh7Ci7xA86gojHNuVHwhEX1c%3D&reserved=0>
Regards,
~Bill
William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP
Senior Energy Engineer
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From: Equest-users <equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>> On Behalf Of Seaman, Ethan via Equest-users
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 9:47 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>; Lee Shaver <lshaver at slipstreaminc.org<mailto:lshaver at slipstreaminc.org>>; Kathryn Kerns <kathryn.kerns at bceengineers.com<mailto:kathryn.kerns at bceengineers.com>>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Simulation Error - Abnormal simulation results detected
Lee,
Great idea - thank you!
Kathryn,
If possible, could you 'save as' the current model, and restore your former model to a previous save as date from when you got the error? It'd then be possible to look at both before and after .inp files side-by-side. If not I understand.
All,
The HVAC system I'm using is an active chilled beam system (work-around) detailed here (MA PA Guidelines 2017 doc):
https://www.masssave.com/-/media/Files/PDFs/Business/MA-PA-Simulation-Guidelines-v22.pdf?la=en&hash=C8AE342C6E058B301659FABE59A098C0C0F43CF8<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.masssave.com%2F-%2Fmedia%2FFiles%2FPDFs%2FBusiness%2FMA-PA-Simulation-Guidelines-v22.pdf%3Fla%3Den%26hash%3DC8AE342C6E058B301659FABE59A098C0C0F43CF8&data=02%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40se.com%7Cd0401721c18b462acf9e08d8598d49f0%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C1%7C637357810656472436&sdata=inqhBXgb9aaDd%2FxFEhRL2l6hLXcK3z06NXigQv9NxNg%3D&reserved=0>
In my case MassSave is the reviewer, so we have to use their system work-around.
I have a feeling that this error may come down to the heating and cooling design days, perhaps more specifically the weekend HDD/CDDs introduced in DOE 2.3. I've only been able to find one resource that outlines design days in eQuest (Doug Maddox's video/slides).
_______________________________________________
Ethan Seaman
Sustainable Design Analyst
SMMA
t: 617.520.9288
www.smma.com<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smma.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40se.com%7Cd0401721c18b462acf9e08d8598d49f0%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C1%7C637357810656472436&sdata=%2Fj2AGRygTqaOhH4ovZJblc9r%2BjlDnftL1OYGtYlCFS4%3D&reserved=0>
From: Lee Shaver <lshaver at slipstreaminc.org<mailto:lshaver at slipstreaminc.org>>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 9:16 PM
To: Kathryn Kerns <kathryn.kerns at bceengineers.com<mailto:kathryn.kerns at bceengineers.com>>; Seaman, Ethan <eseaman at smma.com<mailto:eseaman at smma.com>>
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: RE: Simulation Error - Abnormal simulation results detected
Kathryn,
Any chance you saved the before and after *.inp files? Would be interesting to diff them and see what actually changed.
Lee Shaver
Project Manager
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From: Equest-users <equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>> On Behalf Of Kathryn Kerns via Equest-users
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 7:08 PM
To: Seaman, Ethan <eseaman at smma.com<mailto:eseaman at smma.com>>
Cc: 'equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org' <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Simulation Error - Abnormal simulation results detected
This happened to me too just today. The only way I got out of it was to recreate the PVAV system from scratch, assign all the zones to the new system and then delete the PVAV that I was adjusting when the error suddenly appeared. No idea what happened.
From: Equest-users <equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>> On Behalf Of Seaman, Ethan via Equest-users
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 12:31 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Equest-users] Simulation Error - Abnormal simulation results detected
Hi eQuest-users,
I've lurked here for a while learning from many of you, and am hoping this group's collective experience can help get me out of this pickle.
First off, I'm modeling in eQuest 3.65 7175 - DOE 2.3.
The error I'm getting reads as such from the output report:
***ERROR***********************************************************************
Abnormal simulation results detected. Please
send this input and weather file to program developers.
MsgBomb call argument: 2010 12-7 1/ 1/ 2 HDD
***ERROR***********************************************************************
Abnormal simulation results detected. Please
send this input and weather file to program developers.
MsgBomb call argument: 2010 12-7 1/ 1/ 2 Hol
I believe it has something to do with the heating design day, or the fan schedule, but everything I've tried as far as troubleshooting hasn't gotten my any further to being able to simulate the model.
This same error was once discussed here before, but this modeler's solution doesn't work the same on my model. http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/2019-May/005994.html<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.onebuilding.org%2Fpipermail%2Fequest-users-onebuilding.org%2F2019-May%2F005994.html&data=02%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40se.com%7Cd0401721c18b462acf9e08d8598d49f0%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C1%7C637357810656492423&sdata=D%2BtRsTCJfzFMrIrXYccsh4qhTrSho1fc6ux2dJ2Ub48%3D&reserved=0> This modeler suggests changing the fan schedule from ON/OFF/FLAG to ON/OFF which alone does not solve my sim error.
Attached is a zipped folder with the .inp, .pd2, .bdl, and tmy3 file.
Thank you, and god bless!
_______________________________________________
Ethan Seaman
Sustainable Design Analyst
SMMA
1000 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA 02138
t: 617.520.9288
eseaman at smma.com<mailto:eseaman at smma.com>
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