[Equest-users] modeling an indoor pool in eQuest

[Haberl, Jeff]

... don't forget to take a look at the classic 1975 report by Francis de Winter, Atlas Corp.


Here's the link. There's a complete chapter on how to calculate the heat loss of a pool -- which would be the sensible and latent heat gain into the A/C or heater for the pool zone.


"How to design and build a solar swimming pool heater, Francis de Winter, Santa Clara, CA, 1975". Available at the ecotopia web site:


Jeff


http://www.ecotopia.com/dewinter/de_winter_how_to_design_build_solar_swimming_pool_heater_cda_1975.pdf


Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D., P.E.inactive, FASHRAE,FIBPSA

Department of Architecture

Texas A&M University

College Station, TX 77845-3581

Office: 979-845-6507, Lab: 979-845-6065

Fax 979-862-2457

jhaberl at tamu.edu,www.esl.tamu.edu<mailto:jhaberl at tamu.edu,www.esl.tamu.edu>


________________________________
From: Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton at se.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 2:54 PM
To: Matthew Yarmon; Haberl, Jeff
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] modeling an indoor pool in eQuest

Great responses!

Jeff and Brian have pretty much covered it.  I commonly end up with models including most of not all of the inputs described.

I might only add that, for indoor heated pools in northerly climates, I have experienced some interesting and unique situations concerning ventilation and dehumidification of such spaces.  In one case, I was charged with modeling an existing scenario where "cloud formation" was a regular occurrence we were charged with fixing. Juxxz  Resolving this issue required a combination of replacing active (but ineffective) dehumidification units within the pool space, opening up some (then blocked-off) grills between the pool and adjoining locker rooms (locker exhaust was a critical component to achieve a more effective ACH rate) which incidentally helped to resolve some related odor/ventilation issues in the locker spaces, and adjusting the reheat capacity of the associated AHU with a new coil.

This is all primarily to suggest: I would advise deliberation before excluding from your model any adjoining spaces/systems which may play an impactful role on the operations of your pool conditioning systems.  You might later wish you had those spaces/zones incorporated from the get-go.

Oh and if ever you were in search of a good application for solar HW heating as an ECM... Active indoor pools at northerly latitudes are a solid starting point.  Just be extra mindful of snow cover in application/design ;-).

Best of luck!

~Nick

~Nick

________________________________
From: Equest-users <equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> on behalf of Haberl, Jeff via Equest-users <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 1:16:14 PM
To: Matthew Yarmon <matthewy at fastmail.com>
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] modeling an indoor pool in eQuest


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Hello Matt:


Here's a rather dated paper on how a proxy model was created for the Rec Center at the University of Colorado in 1985. The simulation was with DOE-2 and was actually calibrated to the indoor conditions at the pool, as well as the monthly energy use. The 1987 paper has additional information about how the measurements were used to create an expert system for diagnosing operation and maintenance issues.


Obviously, the DOE-2 program was not created to do this sort of thing, but it can be tricked into giving answers that mimic the measured performance.


Jeff


PS: The building also had a skating rink above the women's locker room that was also modeled (or mimicked) with DOE-2



Haberl, J., Claridge, D. 1985. “Retrofit Energy Studies of a Recreation Center,” ASHRAE Transactions-Research, Vol. 91, Pt. 2, pp. 1421 – 1433 ESL-PA-85-12-01 (December).


Haberl, J., Claridge, D. 1987. “An Expert System for Building Energy Consumption Analysis: Prototype Results,” ASHRAE Transactions-Research, Vol. 93, Pt. 1, pp. 979 - 998 ESL-PA-87-07-01 (July).


Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D., P.E.inactive, FASHRAE,FIBPSA

Department of Architecture

Texas A&M University

College Station, TX 77845-3581

Office: 979-845-6507, Lab: 979-845-6065

Fax 979-862-2457

jhaberl at tamu.edu,www.esl.tamu.edu<mailto:jhaberl at tamu.edu,www.esl.tamu.edu>


________________________________
From: Equest-users <equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> on behalf of Matthew Yarmon via Equest-users <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 9:39 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] modeling an indoor pool in eQuest

Hello,

I am looking for general guidelines on how to model an indoor pool in eQuest, including energy requirements to heat the pool water, and energy requirements to heat/cool/dehumidify the air. If anyone has any resources to point me towards, that would be greatly appreciated. The pool in question is located in northern Alberta, where the temperature dips to as low as -22 °F in winter. The pool has two small windows.  Its roof is part of the building envelope, but its walls are not - the walls are adiabatic.

Thanks,
Matthew

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