[Equest-users] WSHP Capacity Greater Than 90.1 Table 6.8.1

Tue Sep 18 13:25:48 PDT 2018

Preachin’ the truth over here!

I like David’s suggestion to consider your baseline a series of 135,000 Btu/h units matching those prescribed efficiencies.  One alternative approach may be to identify and document  (in coordination with helpful AAON reps a real-world alternative VE option that would represent how inefficient your designers could realistically specify this “specialty” equipment under the same design constraints.  That would make for an impactful baseline in the context of a utility incentive program.

A little more work, but might yield more a more impressive delta if your incentive program scales with savings.

~Nick

[cid:image001.png at 01D44F63.DDA37260]
Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
  Senior Energy Engineer
  Regional Energy Engineering Manager
  Energy and Sustainability Services
  Schneider Electric

D  913.564.6361
M  785.410.3317
F  913.564.6380
E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com>

15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
Suite 204
Lenexa, KS 66219
United States

[cid:image002.png at 01D44F63.DDA37260]

From: Kathryn Kerns <kathryn.kerns at bceengineers.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 12:13 PM
To: Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>; David Eldridge <DEldridge at grummanbutkus.com>; Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>; equest-users at onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] WSHP Capacity Greater Than 90.1 Table 6.8.1

My opinion is, and past experience verifies, whoever is controlling the money makes the rules. You use whatever HVAC baseline requirement they require.  I have the same problem with Washington State Energy Code HVAC requirements and state funding requirements.

Kathryn Kerns
Systems Specialist
BCE Engineers, Inc.
| Ph: 253.922.0446 | Fx: 253.922.0896 |

From: Equest-users <equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>> On Behalf Of Paul Diglio via Equest-users
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 10:03 AM
To: David Eldridge <DEldridge at grummanbutkus.com<mailto:DEldridge at grummanbutkus.com>>; Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>>; equest-users at onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] WSHP Capacity Greater Than 90.1 Table 6.8.1

Hi David:

Yes, for LEED, no problem because it will be a system type 6, VAV with FPB and electric heat.  I was inquiring regarding the utility program here in CT, which requires that the baseline systems be of the same type (WSHP) of the proposed systems using 90.1 minimum equipment efficiencies.

Obviously they will make that decision, I was just curious on what everyone had to say if the baseline system capacity exceeded tables 6.8.1.

Thank you,

Paul Diglio
87 Fairmont Avenue
New Haven, CT 06513
________________________________
From: David Eldridge <DEldridge at grummanbutkus.com<mailto:DEldridge at grummanbutkus.com>>
To: Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>>; "equest-users at onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at onebuilding.org>" <equest-users at onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at onebuilding.org>>; Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net<mailto:paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] WSHP Capacity Greater Than 90.1 Table 6.8.1

What's the system mapping for the building type and size? The baseline may not even have WSHP, or the mapping should yield a smaller system selection that does apply somewhere in the 6.8 tables.

David

________________________________
From: Equest-users <equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>> on behalf of Paul Diglio via Equest-users <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 10:51:15 AM
To: Nicholas Caton; equest-users at onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] WSHP Capacity Greater Than 90.1 Table 6.8.1

Nick:

Thanks for the information.  These WSHP are AAON SA-065-S-C units.  I am waiting for the designer to send me the performance information.

So if there is no efficiency rating for this size unit, should the baseline be modeled with the same efficiency as the proposed model?

Regards,

Paul Diglio
87 Fairmont Avenue
New Haven, CT 06513

________________________________
From: Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>>
To: Paul Diglio <paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net<mailto:paul.diglio at sbcglobal.net>>; "equest-users at onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at onebuilding.org>" <equest-users at onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at onebuilding.org>>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] WSHP Capacity Greater Than 90.1 Table 6.8.1

I’d fall back to 6.4.1.1 under the mandatory provisions for the prescriptive compliance path – that’s the section citing the 6.8 series tables for the purpose of establishing prescriptive compliance.  As I’m reading/interpreting, equipment that is not listed categorically within the 6.8-series tables by extension does not need to achieve any minimum performance rating.  There is however some complementary text there you’ll want to review carefully to see if anything applies to your situation.

One extra thought:  Is it possible you’re dealing with a 60-ton WSHP package, comprised of a combination of smaller heatpumps?  In that scenario it may be easier using the individual heatpump capacity ratings to find something that fits the prescriptive mold, so to speak.

~Nick
[cid:image001.png at 01D44F63.DDA37260]
Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
  Senior Energy Engineer
  Regional Energy Engineering Manager
  Energy and Sustainability Services
  Schneider Electric

D  913.564.6361
M  785.410.3317
F  913.564.6380
E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com>

15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
Suite 204
Lenexa, KS 66219
United States

[cid:image002.png at 01D44F63.DDA37260]

From: Equest-users <equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>> On Behalf Of Paul Diglio via Equest-users
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 6:57 AM
To: equest-users at onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Equest-users] WSHP Capacity Greater Than 90.1 Table 6.8.1

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________________________________

Hi All:

I am looking at a project based on 90.1-2010.  The capacity of the WSHPs are 60 tons.  90.1-2010 Table 6.8.1B does not list the minimum efficiency of WSHP over 135,000 bBtu/Hr.

Any ideas on how to select the minimum efficiency of a similar system for the baseline?

Thank you,

Paul Diglio
87 Fairmont Avenue
New Haven, CT 06513

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