[Equest-users] New eQuest VRF capabilities - Questions

Nicholas Caton Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com
Wed Nov 14 10:43:48 PST 2018 

A huge thank you to Doug and Bill for the quick responses - I have pasted both replies below for continuity and convenience with others following this thread.

I'm really excited by these developments, and with how this is likely to evolve the way I see VRF systems in particular assessed, developed, and ultimately performance-specified for handoff to the manufacturers in my circles.  Pretty ground shaking stuff!

I'm definitely still scaling a learning cliff on the construction and application for the performance curves, specifically.  Will probably have more questions before I get to the top.

Kind regards,

~Nick

[cid:image002.png at 01D47C17.AA1FA680]
Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
  Senior Energy Engineer
  Regional Energy Engineering Manager
  Energy and Sustainability Services
  Schneider Electric

D  913.564.6361
M  785.410.3317
F  913.564.6380
E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com>

15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
Suite 204
Lenexa, KS 66219
United States

[cid:image003.png at 01D47C17.AA1FA680]



From: Doug Maddox <doug at maddoxenergy.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2018 12:05 PM
To: Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] New eQuest VRF capabilities - Questions


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Nick,

Here are some answers to your questions:

1.  I believe Bill is correct in his response yesterday.
2.  NUMBER-OF-UNITS is an alternative to MAX-CAP/UNIT.  However, MAX-CAP/UNIT will still have an effect if the total system capacity divided by NUMBER-OF-UNITS exceeds the MAX-CAP/UNIT value. This prevents having unrealistically high capacity handled by the refrigerant piping.
3.  Refrigerant line insulation is not editable.  The thickness of insulation depends on pipe size and whether it is a liquid pipe or a gas pipe as follows.
High Pressure Liquid Pipe:
   <= 0.375 inch nominal pipe size: 0.375 inch insulation thickness
  Larger pipe: 0.5 inch insulation thickness
Suction Gas Pipe:
   < 2 inch nominal pipe size: 1 inch insulation thickness
 Smaller pipe: 0.75 inch insulation thickness
Insulation conductivity is 0.25 Btu/hr-in-F
4.  The only system diagram I have is shown below. Leader is the line from the outdoor unit to the first branch, header is the main line from the first branch to the last branch, and a branch is from the header to an indoor unit.
[cid:image004.png at 01D47C17.AA1FA680]

5.  The AUX-POWER represents energy for controls, not backup heating. Maybe electric baseboards could work for supplemental. Probably should be addressed in a future release.



From: Bishop, Bill <bbishop at pathfinder-ea.com>
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2018 5:40 PM
To: Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: New eQuest VRF capabilities - Questions - custom BDLDialogs.txt file

Hey Nick,
I couldn't find MAX-CAP/UNIT in the interface and I believe it was just overlooked. You can modify the necessary file to include it as follows:

  *   Find the BDLDialogs.txt file in Documents -> eQUEST 3-65-7175 Data -> ScreensDOE23
  *   Save a backup copy of the file with a different name.
  *   Edit the BDLDialogs.txt file:

     *   Using a text editor, search for:    LABEL, "Rated and Design Conditions - Cooling"
     *   Insert the following lines of text immediately preceding the LABEL line:
; WJB 11/09/18 - added new input field
           EDIT, 19460, 19460, 0, 1, SYSTEM, 0,     MAX-CAP/UNIT,  0, STD, 580,  55,  23,  70,  0, 3,  "Max Capacity per Unit:",  LEFT, -145, 5, 1, LEFT, 4, 5,"Maximum size per indoor unit. Used for modeling of branch refrigerant piping. Affects thermal and friction losses."

  *   Save the BDLDialogs.txt file.
  *   Run eQUEST as you normally would.

Your VRF Coil tabpage should now look like this:
[cid:image005.png at 01D47C17.AA1FA680]

I believe your understanding of NUM-OF-UNITS is correct.

~Bill

William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP
Senior Energy Engineer

[Pathfinder-EA-logo-2]T: (585) 698-1956                        F: (585) 325-6005
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From: Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas Caton via Equest-users
Sent: Friday, November 9, 2018 4:40 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Equest-users] New eQuest VRF capabilities - Questions

Hi everyone!

I have a couple questions to pose as I'm wading into the new VRF capabilities built into the new eQuest build 3.65-7175, in doe 2.3 mode.  Curious if anyone else in parallel has solved any of the following, or else would like to pile on with additional queries:


  1.  Where in the eQuest interface can I review/edit the input for MAX-CAP/UNIT in a VRF system?  I've seen repeated references to this between the SIM outputs and the reference help files, and I know the default is affected by the indoor cassette type selection (VRF-TERM-TYPE)...  I just can't find the input in the airside system (PVVT), zonal inputs, or Condensing unit input windows... Probably I'm just missing it, but is it perhaps missing in the interface?

[cid:image011.png at 01D47C17.AA1FA680]

  1.  Expanding on the last question, am I correct in understanding the NUMBER-OF-UNITS input within the preceding reference article for MAX-CAP/UNIT is referring to this input under "Unit Staging" in the Basics tab for Air-Side Systems?  Seems from the article this could serve as a proxy for MAX-CAP/UNIT in effect...

[cid:image012.png at 01D47C17.AA1FA680]

  1.  For determining thermal losses, is refrigerant line insulation an editable input for branch (airside system) and leader/header (condensing unit) refrigerant piping?  Is that just a constant omitted for simplicity of inputs?
  2.  For illustration, is there a system diagram anywhere at present in the reference manual, similar to those provided for existing SYSTEM articles? (I'm thinking this might provide an overview of the terminology like leader vs header vs branch piping, and diagram the split between what inputs are specified at the CONDENSING-UNIT vs the airside SYSTEM)
  3.  I don't have the impression that the condenser inputs for AUX-POWER are intended to cover auxiliary/secondary heat sources for when a VRF's heating capacity needs an extra kick during wintertime operation.  I reckon electric baseboards are the natural answer for supplemental heat at the zone, but which inputs fields are most appropriate (if any) for radiators in an outdoor unit enclosure (Literature: https://www.daikinac.com/content/assets/DOC/White-papers-/BPG-EXTAMB.pdf<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.daikinac.com%2Fcontent%2Fassets%2FDOC%2FWhite-papers-%2FBPG-EXTAMB.pdf&data=02%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40schneider-electric.com%7Cbcb41e704451472e99d808d64736fc1b%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C636774698819775251&sdata=ZKuYjT0UcxZQd1vp7iHo1YXoukGnfkHn2wK4mQQClb0%3D&reserved=0>)?
  4.  Would it be possible to identify makes/models of real world equipment that the library performance curves are based upon?
... Answering my own question:  Comments within the BDLLIB.DAT file (eQuest Data Directory --> ../DOE23/BDLLIB.DAT), starting on line 25094, provide some sources for the VRF library performance curves.

Here is a curve commentary reference I made for myself - may as well share:

VRF Curve                                                           Comment
VRF-FAN-EIR-FPLR                                           $1.4 exponent for multi-speed fans
VRF-HP-Resys-ClCap-fSST&ODB                 $Daikin RXYMQ48MVJU, no SST dependence
VRF-HP-Resys-ClEIR-fSST&ODB                  $Daikin RXYMQ48MVJU, no SST dependence
VRF-HP-Resys-ClEIR-fPLR                              $Coefficients from Daikin for EER~11 excluding indoor fan heat
VRF-HP-Resys-Cycle-fPLR                              $Estimated, 1.6 minutes at 50% cycle
VRF-HP-Resys-HtCap-fSCT&OWB              $Daikin RXYMQ48MVJU, no SCT dependence
VRF-HP-DefrostCap-fOWB                           $Daikin and Mitsubishi similar
VRF-HP-Resys-HtEIR-fSCT&OWB                 $Daikin RXYMQ48MVJU, no SCT dependence
VRF-HP-Resys-HtEIR-fPLR                             * no comment *
VRF-HP-Resys-Crankcase-fPLR                    $Used for both heating and cooling
VRF-EP-Cap-fSDT&SST                                    $From EnergyPlus sample input - high speed curve
VRF-EP-EIR-fSDT&SST                                    $From EnergyPlus sample input - high speed curve
VRF-EP-EIR-fPLR                                               $From EnergyPlus sample input, refitted - Ratio & DT
VRF044-Cap-fSST&SDT                                  $DanFoss VZH028-035-044
VRF044-EIR-fSST&SDT                                    $DanFoss VZH028-035-044
VRF044-EIR-fPLR                                               $DanFoss VZH028-035-044
VRF088-Cap-fSST&SDT                                  $DanFoss VZH088AG
VRF088-EIR-fSST&SDT                                    $DanFoss VZH088AG
VRF088-EIR-fPLR                                              $DanFoss VZH088AG
VRF_CL_ThermLoss_fPLR&SST                   $From typical piping layout for 20 ton system
VRF_HT_ThermLoss_fPLR&SDT                  $From typical piping layout for 20 ton system
VRF_COOL_DTSAT_fSST                                $From typical piping layout for 20 ton system
VRF_HEAT_DTSAT_fSDT                                $From typical piping layout for 20 ton system

Thanks,

~Nick

[cid:image002.png at 01D47C17.AA1FA680]
Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
  Senior Energy Engineer
  Regional Energy Engineering Manager
  Energy and Sustainability Services
  Schneider Electric

D  913.564.6361
M  785.410.3317
F  913.564.6380
E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com>

15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
Suite 204
Lenexa, KS 66219
United States

[cid:image003.png at 01D47C17.AA1FA680]




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