[Equest-users] Defining a different fuel unit

Fri Oct 6 05:24:07 PDT 2017

Thanks for your reply David,
The two fuels serve that same combustion purpose. I am not sure how the equipment efficiencies would figure into the equation. DOE2 calculates the BTUs combusted then converts to the meter fuel unit. The total BTUs combusted remains the same between the two runs therefore I would expect those ratios to all be the same.

Christopher R. Jones, P.Eng.
Technical Specialist
Sustainability & Energy

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T +1 416-644-0252

2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada

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From: Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of David Eldridge via Equest-users
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 2:07 AM
To: Bldg-Sim, Rate, Equest, or IBPSA <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Defining a different fuel unit

Are the two fuels being combusted in the same process, or is “mine” something equivalent to a purchased steam where the client is only billed for the latent energy? If the issue could be traced to a difference in combustion efficiency maybe that can explain the difference (purchased fuel vs raw fuel) or narrow down the equipment efficiency that may be varying between runs.

David
Sent from my iPad

On Oct 5, 2017, at 9:02 PM, Jones, Christopher via Equest-users <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>> wrote:
I am trying to create a different natural gas unit. Call it “mine”? I define the Btu/unit in the new fuel meter. I assign the new fuel meter to the Air-side and Water-Side equipment. Then I compare the number of fuel units (eQuest doesn’t provide a way to change “Therms” in the ES-D report – that I could find – I didn’t review the DOE2 manual to see if it is possible). I calculate the ratio of Btu/unit between “Therm” and “mine”. I would expect that ratio to be the same as the ratio of units consumed between the two simulation runs. But this, somewhat poorly organized, table demonstrates my confusion:

ES-D "Therms"

Meter Btu/unit

ES-D Cost

mine

37948

35,724

$26,230

therm

15360

100,000

$10,617

ratio

2.47

2.80

2.47

Christopher R. Jones, P.Eng.
Technical Specialist
Sustainability & Energy

<image001.png>
T +1 416-644-0252

2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada

wsp.com

Please consider the environment before printing...

From: Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Bishop, Bill via Equest-users
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 2:32 PM
To: Jeff Ross-Bain <jeff at rbgb.com<mailto:jeff at rbgb.com>>
Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] DOAS and system HP

Jeff,
There are a number of workarounds for modeling DOAS units in eQUEST. The latest eQUEST beta version can run DOE-2.3 which has explicit options for modeling DOAS systems. A single DOAS can serve multiple other systems and be configured to supply the zones directly or to connect to the mixed air, as in your WSHP case. I don’t have much experience with it but it looks promising.
For fan power, it sounds like you have sized the DOAS already, so the 20HP supply and 7.5HP return fan power (or better yet, the BHP for the fan selections) should be entered via some combination of inputs instead of letting the system(s) be autosized. If you specify HVAC-SUPPLY/RETURN for ERV-FANS, then any fan power entered in the Heat Recovery 2 tab inputs will be added to the fan power entered for the system SUPPLY-KW/FLOW or SUPPLY-STATIC. The fan power penalty for the ERV section appears in the ERV Energy Recovery Summary reports. I would also look at the SV-A and SS-H reports for the systems in question. You could multiply the fan hours reported in the SS-L report by the DOAS fan power to see if the reported energy makes sense.
Regards,
~Bill

William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP | Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP
Senior Energy Engineer

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134 South Fitzhugh Street                 Rochester, NY 14608

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From: Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Ross-Bain via Equest-users
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 11:54 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Equest-users] DOAS and system HP

Dear eQuest Experts,

I have a nagging issue that I hope someone can clarify. It has to do with DOAS units and fan motor HP.

We have a DOAS unit that supplies all outside air (OA) to a battery of WSHP units. In preparing the model, I used the “dummy zone” approach, conditioned the air, and all of that air is then the source of OA to the WSHPs. By the way, in this system, a portion of the return air from the WSHPs enters the DOAS.

The question is how is the actual DOAS unit HP modeled? This unit is 20HP supply and 7.5HP return (exhaust). The dummy zone HP auto sized is much less than the actual. However, if I input actual (i.e. kW/cfm), the energy use soars.
Am I missing something? I wonder if the size of the dummy zone matters, or if some of the fan power is included in the WSHP and exhaust systems…

Thanks,

Jeff Ross-Bain, BEMP, LEED Fellow
President
404-220-8955
www.rbgb.com<http://www.rbgb.com/>

Build Green. Save Time. Save Money.

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