[Equest-users] Boiler Fuel Type / Hot Water Pipe Properties

Thu Jun 9 05:38:28 PDT 2016

Dear Christopher,
I create new fuel meter in detiled mode. I am okey with it. But the problem is; "HW Plant Equipment" section just gives me "Natural gas" as fuel type. AND,  I cant enter this section when i am in Detailed edit mode:              
This is why i am stuck, unfortunately. If there is a new idea, i am open to it.
Waiting for helps.
H. Tuğçin KIRANTFrom: Christopher.r.Jones at wspgroup.com
To: kasruko at hotmail.com
CC: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Boiler Fuel Type / Hot Water Pipe Properties
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 12:23:45 +0000

I believe the answers others have provided will get you to where you are trying to go. The key is to get out of the Wizard mode and into the Detailed Edit mode.
 In the graphic below, the title is “eQUEST DD Wizard: HW Plant Equipment”. You are still in the Wizard mode and not in the detailed edit mode.

Christopher Jones,
P.Eng.

Senior Engineer

WSP Canada Inc.
2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
Toronto, ON M4P 1E4

T +1 416-644-4226
F +1 416-487-9766
C +1 416-697-0056

www.wspgroup.com

From: Tuğçin Kırant [mailto:kasruko at hotmail.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2016 7:28 AM

To: Jones, Christopher

Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Boiler Fuel Type / Hot Water Pipe Properties

Thank you Christopher. I will keep this information in my mind. 

However , i am not in that step, unfortunately. I am still trying to solve boiler fuel type problem. :/

I am stuck here. Is there any new idea  about this? 

Ms. H. Tuğçin KIRANT

To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 14:22:29 +0000

Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Boiler Fuel Type / Hot Water Pipe Properties

From: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Keep in mind that different coal has different heating values.

The DOE2.2 default is 24,580,000 Btu/ton.

Coal Grade

Heating Value (Btu/Ton)

Anthracite

25,820,000

Semi-Anthracite

27,540,000

Low-volatile bituminous

28,680,000

Medium-volatile bituminous

27,680,000

High-volatile bituminous A

26,180,000

High-volatile bituminous B

24,260,000

High-volatile bituminous C

21,500,000

Sub-bituminous B

18,300,000

Sub-bituminous C

17,880,000

Lignite

13,800,000

Christopher Jones,
P.Eng.

Senior Engineer

WSP Canada Inc.
2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
Toronto, ON M4P 1E4

T +1 416-644-4226
F +1 416-487-9766
C +1 416-697-0056

www.wspgroup.com

From: Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
On Behalf Of via Equest-users

Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 10:01 AM

To: kasruko at hotmail.com

Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Boiler Fuel Type / Hot Water Pipe Properties

Hello,

I think I might be able to answer at least a portion of the question. Right now, you seem to be switching between the wizards, and detailed mode. In eQuest,
  I am not aware of any method of adding coal meters through the wizard, but I can help with adding coal to a model in detailed mode. Just as a warning, if you switch from detailed mode back into the wizards, all of the changes you made in detailed mode will
 be reversed. So, make sure you have everything you wanted to do in the wizard mode finished before you dive into detailed mode.

You can switch into the detailed editing mode using the main dropdown menu.

Once you’re in detailed mode, under the “Utility and Economics” tab, you can find all of the meters that you have for your building. eQuest will generate an
 electric meter (EM1) and a natural gas meter (FM1), that can be found in the component tree on the left hand side. Right click on the Fuel Meters folder, and select “Create Fuel Meter”

Select coal meter from the dropdown for meter type. In this example I chose to re-name it “Coal Meter”

Now that there is a meter for coal, I can assign the boiler to run on coal. Under the “Water-Side” HVAC tab, select the boiler(s) that you want to assign to
 run on coal. Under the “Fuel Meter” dropdown menu, select the coal meter you just created, and click done.

Now whenever you run the building simulation, your boiler will be using coal as its fuel source.

I hope that helps,

Greg

Greg Hildner, EIT, EMIT

Energy Engineer
Energy and Sustainability Services

Global Solutions  

D  (913) 564-6358

M  (630) 380-4709

E  greg.hildner at schneider-electric.com

F  (913) 564-6380

15200 Santa Fe Trail Dr

Suite 204

Lenexa, Kansas

United States

From: Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
On Behalf Of Tugçin Kirant via Equest-users

Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 3:39 AM

To: Nicholas Caton; jra_sac at yahoo.com; dberty at baselineenergyconsulting.com

Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Boiler Fuel Type / Hot Water Pipe Properties

Hello again,

First of all, i wanna thank all of you for your interests. 

For pipe losses i will use your method Nicholas. It sounds as a reasonable solution for my problem.

However, I have problems about fuel type, still. When I click fuel type to change it to coal, it gives me warning as in picture:

and i say ok. Then it gives me another warning :

again i say ok to see what will happen and simulate it. As a result it doesnt give the results and the error is:

As i mentioned before, on the HW plant Equipment settings, it just gives me option for natural gas :/  I attached the picture below again:

I suppose that because of this, it doesnt calculate for coal, even i changed it on Utility&Economics section.

Do you have any idea about this?

Sincerely.

Ms. H. Tuğçin KIRANT

Subject: RE: [Equest-users] Boiler Fuel Type / Hot Water Pipe Properties

Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 17:30:59 -0500

From: Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com

To: jra_sac at yahoo.com; 
dberty at baselineenergyconsulting.com; kasruko at hotmail.com

CC: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

I might add something contrarian, but this does require getting past wizards and into detailed edits per John’s advice:

eQuest can certainly be used to assess distribution losses.  If you are willing/able to determine a reasonable assessment of pipe area and average insulation
 level (U*A), eQuest can actually determine on an hourly basis the losses in that circulation loop (U*A*dT).  For this you can choose between a few different loop “locations” which will vary how the delta in temperatures is assessed each hour.  Suggest further
 reading up on the inputs located here in detailed mode:

Fair counterpoint: piping/distribution losses are (for reasonable reasons) deliberately excluded from common modes of code compliance simulation and the performance
 rating method (i.e. LEED, Appendix G), which are generally focused upon “design side” simulation/validation modeling and typically are trying to avoid such realities in an effort to minimize “arbitrary” penalization (i.e. why must my distributed campus with
 necessarily larger distribution losses have a harder go at meeting threshold XYZ?).  In turn such inputs don’t get a ton of attention from that side of our industry.

Further, once you’re looking at the “rainbow reports,” note the “gas” consumption/demand charts really more generically mean to reference “Fuel.”  The numbers
 should be analogous (if with slightly different rounding sometimes) to the PS-E report for “all fuel meters,” IIRC.

You can also directly edit those titles for presentation if need be by right-clicking the chart for a context menu – it’s in one of the tabs there ;).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Caton, P.E.

  Senior Energy Engineer

  Energy and Sustainability Services

  North America Operations

  Schneider Electric

D  913.564.6361

M  785.410.3317

E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com

F  913.564.6380

15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive

Suite 204

Lenexa, KS 66219

United States

From: Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
On Behalf Of John Aulbach via Equest-users

Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 11:59 AM

To: David Berty; Tuğçin Kırant

Cc: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org

Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Boiler Fuel Type / Hot Water Pipe Properties

Sir:

If you are familiar with the DETAIL-EDIT mode, place your project in that Mode (after making a copy of it to stay in Wizard mode) - by all means give
 it another name to avoid confusion.

On the Horizontal Tab that says UTILITIES and ECONOMICS, you can then go to the tree hierarchy on the left side of the page. Go to subfolder FUEL-METER
 and click on. The main screen now displays FUEL-METER attributes. Now if you click FUel Meter Type, Coal will appear. Make sure the Btu/unit is what you expect from your Coal, as i understand there are several types in use.

Hope this helps.

John R. Aulbach, PE

Los Angeles, CA 

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 7:03 AM, David Berty via Equest-users <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
 wrote:

I don't personally know the answer to your question on the fuel source coal vs. natural gas.

Regarding the 2nd question on simulation of piping pressure and thermal losses; these modelling software programs do not model these energy losses. They don't "care"
 where your central utility plant is physically located in relation to your load. They make the assumption that you have properly sized pipelines, insulation etc. EQuest is only attempting to estimate the fuel consumption of meeting the building's heating and
 cooling load, not assess the pipe sizing and insulation condition.

David Berty, P.E.

Baseline Energy Consulting

317.220.9272

On Jun 7, 2016 9:18 AM, "Tuğçin
 Kırant" <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org> wrote:

Hi everyone :)

I am a new user and modelling a district heating system. Probably my questions are easy, but i couldnt solve the problems.

1- I define boiler but the fuel type must be coal. However, Equest doesnt let me get the results for coal. It simulates as natural gas. Even i create new fuel meter
 for coal and select it on boil properties. How can i get the results for coal? (Maybe it is related to pic1. But there is no other choice except Natural Gas )

 2- As i mentioned before, this is a district heating system and there are 6 residential villas. Combined
 Heat Power Plant supplies the hot water and it is located very far away. I wanna see the effect of pipe lenght, dimension and insulataion
 material of the hot water pipes. So,  how can i enter the pipes and their properties?

Sincerely.

H. Tuğçin
 KIRANT

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