[Equest-users] Air-cooled Chiller EIRFPLR curve in eQUEST

Thu Oct 22 08:28:34 PDT 2015

Hi,

Just wanted to clarify something in the above. I made a crude
simplification that your 'percent loading column' was actually the PLR
(equivalent to assuming you have a constant available capacity), when the
PLR should be the capacity at which it's currently running divided by the
capacity available at the current condition.

The capacity available at the current condition is missing from your table,
and should be obtained from the manufacturer, or as Bill mentioned, you
could estimate it based on a default eQuest curve. This will have some
impact. I've checked with a default eQuest curve and the calculated PLR is
then 4-8% lower than what I used.

If you do use the equest CAPFT curve to estimate the available capacity,
you'll have to change it as well to match your non-AHRI rating condition,
or the other way around...

Please bear that in mind!

--
Julien Marrec, EBCP, BPI MFBA
Energy&Sustainability Engineer
T: +33 6 95 14 42 13

LinkedIn (en) : www.linkedin.com/in/julienmarrec
LinkedIn (fr) : www.linkedin.com/in/julienmarrec/fr
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/julienmarrec>

2015-10-20 18:13 GMT+02:00 Julien Marrec <julien.marrec at gmail.com>:

> Hi,
>
> Bill made great points on the rated v design as well as "Capacity" being
> mislabeled.
>
> I'll try to get slightly more directive regarding how to create the curve
> from the data you have (per my understanding at least... correct me if I'm
> wrong) as well as trying to highlight that one needs to be real careful
> when fitting a biquadratic curve...
>
>
>
> *Normalized curves*
> First, you have to remember that this curve is "normalized" at the
> rated/design conditions, meaning the dependent variable Z is 1.0 when
> independent variables (X, Y) are at rated conditions.
>
> In your case, you need two independent variables: the PLR, the
> evaporated/condenser dT (in your case air-cooled chiller it's dT between
> outdoor air temperature and leaving chilled water) and one dependent
> variable EIRFPLR.
>
> For the EIRFPLR value, my understanding is that you should calculate as
> InputkW_i / InputkW_n (where 'i' is at the specific operating point and 'n'
> is the rated value).
>
> *See attached spreadsheet for how I understand you should fit this curve
> (red columns)*
>
> *It's critical that you set the RATED conditions properly because of this
> normalization.*
>
>
>
>
> *Curve fitting with 10 points...*
> *Please also note that fitting a biquadratic curve (essentially a 3D
> surface) with only 10 points will result in not so great results... *
> If you want to get any accurate, you need to get a broader range of
> conditions, when outside temperature is 90F but the PLR is 50% for example
> (which can happen quite often if you have temperature setbacks for example,
> or simply an oversized cooling plant for that matter...).
>
> *If you try fitting with those 10 points, by entering them as a curve fit
> with "raw data points" in eQuest *(or doing the curve fit by yourself...) *you'll
> get some coefficients, no problems here, but do they actually represent
> something physical?* The mathematical fit is actually really good, but
> that's not quite enough. (a biquadratic curve has 6 coefficients, for 10
> points, overfitting is bound to occur...)
>
> Try and plot that and you'll see that:
>
> 1. It is SIGNIFICANTLY different than any curve already in eQuest
> 2. Some quite non-physical things can actually happen. Like if you have
> 80°F outside, and a PLR of ~30%, you get a resulting EIR that's negative...
> (3. In your case this isn't such a problem because "thankfully" you have
> three datapoints at the same dT but with different PLR, which makes it a
> little bit more robust, but the rest of them can almost be described as a
> line rather than a surface. Often you can find radically different surfaces
> that will produce the same almost perfect R²...)
> 4. I'd bet that if you get 2 more datapoints at different conditions
> you'll get a completely different curve (overfitting)
>
>
> Here is an interactive 3d graph
> <https://plot.ly/~jmarrec/214/zfx-y-biquadratic-curve-fitting/> (orbit
> holding left click, and zoom with your mouse wheel) on which you will find:
>
> - A 3d surface for the fitted curve, based on your data entered in eQuest
> as a curve fit with "raw data points" and getting the coefficients from
> there
> - A 3d surface (grey colorscale) that is one of the curve from eQuest's
> library ('RecipAir-EIR-fPLR-3Comp/Ckt') for reference
> - A 3d scatter plot (the crosshairs are the datapoints from your
> manufacturers)
> - A translucent neutral plane (EIRFPLR=0): anything below that plane is
> unphysical
>
> See what I mean?
>
>
>
> Hope this was somewhat informative and not just too long to read...
>
> Best,
> Julien
>
>
> --
> Julien Marrec, EBCP, BPI MFBA
> Energy&Sustainability Engineer
> T: +33 6 95 14 42 13
>
> LinkedIn (en) : www.linkedin.com/in/julienmarrec
> LinkedIn (fr) : www.linkedin.com/in/julienmarrec/fr
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/julienmarrec>
>
> 2015-10-19 20:58 GMT+02:00 Bishop, Bill <bbishop at pathfinder-ea.com>:
>
>> Kusum,
>>
>>
>>
>> The entry for “Chiller Energy Consumption” in the DOE-2 help files is a
>> good place to start. It explains how hourly chiller energy is determined.
>>
>> The three curves that determine hourly chiller energy are EIR-FT,
>> EIR-FPLR and CAPACITY-FT. I believe the data in your attachment could help
>> you create a custom curve for any one of these inputs, given the other two.
>> I would create a custom EIR-FT curve based on the default eQUEST curves for
>> EIR-FPLR and CAPACITY-FT for an air-cooled chiller, but you could create a
>> custom EIR-FPLR curve using default curves for the other two as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> The independent variables (knowns) that you have based on your
>> manufacturer’s data are CHW-T, DBT, (or t1, t2 per the help menu
>> description), Load, rated Capacity and EIR. (More correctly, you have *design
>> capacity* at 105F since the eQUEST *rated capacity* is based on 95F
>> outdoor drybulb.)
>>
>> The dependent variables are hourly capacity as a function of temperature
>> Caphour, and PLR which is a function of load and Caphour.
>>
>> The manufacturer’s data column for “Capacity” is mislabeled. It is
>> actually load, as seen by multiplying the “Percent Loading” column by the
>> design capacity. Actual chiller capacity should *increase* slightly with
>> decreasing ambient temperature. So the table doesn’t actually show you the
>> part load ratio PLR, which is the load divided by the hourly capacity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> ~Bill
>>
>>
>>
>> *William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP **|** Pathfinder Engineers
>> & Architects LLP*
>>
>> *Senior Energy Engineer*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 134 South Fitzhugh Street                 Rochester, NY 14608
>>
>> *T: (585) 698-1956*                        F: (585) 325-6005
>>
>> bbishop at pathfinder-ea.com <wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com>
>> www.pathfinder-ea.com
>>
>> [image: http://png-5.findicons.com/files/icons/977/rrze/720/globe.png]Carbon
>> Fee and Dividend - simple, effective, and market-based.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *John Aulbach
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 19, 2015 12:26 PM
>> *To:* Kusum Sekhalia <skusum3 at gmail.com>;
>> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Air-cooled Chiller EIRFPLR curve in eQUEST
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Kusem:
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't have too much time, but if you are holding a 44 DegF CHW temp and
>> varying the outdoor temp (essentially your condenser), aren't you simply
>> changing the capacity of the chiller based on outdoor temp. I believe you
>> need to leaving the outdoor temp at a fixed temp, then apply your part load
>>  and the equivalent kW.
>>
>>
>>
>> eQuest will vary the chiller peak based on outdoor loadwith onwe of the
>> other chiller curves (guys, help me).
>>
>>
>>
>> John Aulbach
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, October 19, 2015 9:05 AM, Kusum Sekhalia <skusum3 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am trying to create an air-cooled chiller EIRFPLR curve but am getting
>> errors. I am not able to figure out what am I doing wrong? I have attached
>> the part load data from the manufacturer. Can someone help me or provide me
>> some information which shows step by step on how to create the curve. I am
>> using the Design guidelines HVAC simulation pdf to create the curve but not
>> successful so far. Please help.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kusum Shekhlia
>>
>>
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>
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