[Equest-users] Steam humidification

[Daniel Knapp]

Have you tried doing some hand-calcs of the expected contribution of increasing the temperature of the water on the humidification energy? It might turn out to be a fairly small percentage. Water has a specific heat capacity of 4.186 kJ/kg/ºC whereas the latent heat is 2257 kJ/kG. For a temperature rise of 80ºC the heat added to a kg of water would be about 320 kJ which is about 14% of the latent heat needed to vaporize it. Remember too that water vapour added at 100ºC will cool to the room setpoint (say 20ºC), so the net change in water temperature will probably be fairly small when all is said and done. 

That said, I can certainly understand the desire to accurately characterize this contribution to the humidification energy. It might be worth looking at how much steam is added on an annual basis and trying to figure out how much energy would be used for each of the two processes to see whether it’s significant or not. 

All the best,

Dan


—
Daniel Knapp, PhD, PPhys, LEED® AP O+M
danielk at arborus.ca

Arborus Consulting
Energy Strategies for the Built Environment
www.arborus.ca
76 Chamberlain Avenue 
Ottawa, ON, K1S 1V9 
Phone: (613) 234-7178 ext. 113
Fax: (613) 234-0740




> On Dec 7, 2015, at 2:24 PM, Bishop, Bill <bbishop at pathfinder-ea.com> wrote:
> 
> I wouldn’t expect ground temperature to impact simulated steam humidification energy, unless you select a HUMIDIFIER-TYPE of DHW-LOOP. Per the DOE-2 help menu entry for MIN-HUMIDITY, the required heat for humidification is passed to PLANT as a steam or hot water load. You could create an hourly report to help troubleshoot your results, by including variables such as these at the system-level below, and also create an hourly report for the loop that serves the air handler with steam or hot water.
>  
> <image002.png>
>  
> Regards,
> ~Bill
>  
> William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP | Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP
> Senior Energy Engineer
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>  
> 134 South Fitzhugh Street                 Rochester, NY 14608
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> From: Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Jones, Christopher
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 2:17 PM
> To: Lapierre, Patrick <plapierre at bpa.ca>; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Steam humidification
>  
> Yes, it seems like an oversight. I know DHW does respond to a change in ground temperatures. It is short sighted not to account for the heating of the make-up water for humidification. 
>  
>  
> <image012.png>
> Christopher Jones, P.Eng. 
> Senior Engineer
>  
> WSP Canada Inc.
> 2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
> Toronto, ON M4P 1E4
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> From: Lapierre, Patrick [mailto:plapierre at bpa.ca] 
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 2:08 PM
> To: Jones, Christopher; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: RE: Steam humidification
>  
> I’ve just tested your suggestion Christopher and there was no variation at all.
> Seems wierd to me that such a crucial load is being overlooked.
>  
>  
> <image013.jpg>
> Patrick Lapierre_ing.
> plapierre at bpa.ca
>  
> De : Jones, Christopher [mailto:Christopher.r.Jones at wspgroup.com] 
> Envoyé : 7 décembre 2015 11:52
> À : Lapierre, Patrick <plapierre at bpa.ca>; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Objet : RE: Steam humidification
>  
> Hello Patrick,
> One way to test this would be to change the ground temperatures in the Site Data dialog.
>  
>  
> <image012.png>
> Christopher Jones, P.Eng. 
> Senior Engineer
>  
> WSP Canada Inc.
> 2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
> Toronto, ON M4P 1E4
> T +1 416-644-4226
> F +1 416-487-9766
> C +1 416-697-0056
>  
> www.wspgroup.com
>  
> From: Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Lapierre, Patrick
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 10:14 AM
> To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> Subject: [Equest-users] Steam humidification
>  
> I’m questionning myself on the calculations made by DOE towards the humidification load.
>  
> Does anyone know if the energy necessary to bring cold water make-up to its boiling point is accounted for by DOE?
> After a quick look in the engineer’s manual, it seems to me as if the humidification load only accounts for the heat of vaporisation of water. As if the water supply is already at it’s boiling point.
>  
> Did I overlook something?
> I need a captain here!
>  
>  
> <image014.jpg>
> Patrick Lapierre_ing.
> plapierre at bpa.ca   |  www.bpa.ca  |  t: 5143833747x2807
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