[Equest-users] VRV Special case: is it worth modeling?

Sun Oct 24 23:59:21 PDT 2010

Yes yes, it is the EER! That was a mistake of communication.

Anyways, there is no place to enter the COP for the VRV system when modeling it by a PVVT system. All that matters is the performance curves, right?

Best,

Omar

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Omar Katanani
Sustainable Design Engineer

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-----Original Message-----
From: Berke Çelikel [mailto:berkecelikel at erketasarim.com] 
Sent: 25 October 2010 09:24
To: Gary.Schrader at buildings.schneider-electric.com; Omar Katanani; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: RE: [Equest-users] VRV Special case: is it worth modeling?

I agree with Gary I have never see that high COP for the VRV units. It can be EER value. Please check that value again to avoid any mistake.

Good luck

Yük.Müh.Berke Çelikel

Lis.Mak.Müh/Yük.Lis.End.Müh.(Müh.Yön.)

BSc.Mech. Eng./MSc.Ind.Eng.(Eng. Man.)

From: Gary.Schrader at buildings.schneider-electric.com [mailto:Gary.Schrader at buildings.schneider-electric.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 6:11 PM
To: omar at ecoconsulting.net; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] VRV Special case: is it worth modeling?

Omar,

The only thing that would save you a significant amount of energy in my opinion would have been scheduling large VAV air handling and plant equipment that was originally serving them. I had a project where I took data closets off of the VAV units and put VRV units in the closets so that the VAV units no longer had to run 24/7. Scheduling these large VAV units had a significant savings impact.

In your case, it sounds like you may have something similar but I would need clarification. You said that your closets (that you want to convert to VRV) are currently FCU. I assume that these FCUs are served by chilled water. By switching these closets over to VRV, are you able to now schedule the chiller off? If yes, I would assume that significant savings would result by not running a chiller (and pumping) 24/7, even with a high unloading capability and variable-speed pumping. (If you had low unloading capability and constant pumping, more savings would result)

At face value, simply changing the efficiency of the cooling equipment isn't enough to evaluate energy savings. If, however, you can significantly change the schedule of plant equipment because it is isolated from zones that require 24/7 operation, savings could be significant and I would certainly recommend a model.

Sidenote: 10 COP seems very, very high for even the best VRV equipment. I would check that value to ensure accuracy...

Best luck,

Gary

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Gary Schrader | Schneider Electric | Buildings Business | Energy Solutions | Engineer I
Phone: +1 913 217 8068 | Fax: +1 913 469 0206
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From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Omar Katanani
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 5:41 AM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] VRV Special case: is it worth modeling?

Dear all,

My school has some 200 zones including classrooms, storage rooms, offices...

The HVAC system is a VAV one, with FCU for 17 offices/storage rooms.

In the new updated design, 4 of these FCUs were replaced with a VRV system. I am about to model that:

Do you think that these 4 small zones (electrical room (x 2), UPS room, telephone room) will significantly change the Space Cooling results (not that no heating is required)? I mean, these zones had FCUs and were conditioned. All that changed is that a VRV (COP=10) replaced the chiller (COP=5.4) for only 4 zones!

I would like to avoid the complexity of modeling VRVs if possible!

Many thanks,

Omar

___________________________

Omar Katanani
Sustainable Design Engineer

Email:  <mailto:omar at ecoconsulting.net> omar at ecoconsulting.net

EcoConsulting (Lebanon)

Nahas Building, 4th floor

4 St-Maron Street / Georges Haddad Avenue

Postal Code: 2028 5806 SAIFI

Beirut, Lebanon

Tel:          +961 (0) 1 971 266
Mobile:    +961 (0) 3 045 045

EcoConsulting (UK) Ltd
28 Marshalsea Road
London, SE1 1HF
Tel:  +44 (0) 207 939 0989
Fax:  +44 (0) 207 939 0981

Website: www.ecoconsulting.net <http://www.ecoconsulting.net/> 

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